Google Gemini Ultra, AI Chip Frenzy & Tech Journalist Joanna Stern | Ep44

AI4H EP0044
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gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to another episode of AI for Humans, your weekly guide to demystifying the world of generative ai, of robots, of Googles, of Nvidia. All of these companies and more will be yours. Kevin, how are you 

Track 1: I am good. Gavin, thank you for asking Buddy. I'm psyched for another big show, tons of AI this week on our program today, Google Gemini Ultra Premium plus ribbed for

Track 1: everyone's pleasure. It is out

Track 1: Google promoted the heck out of this thing, and it's

Track 1: finally here, and they wanna charge you 20 some odd dollars a month for it, and Gavin paid for it. So you don't have to, but maybe

Track 1: you'll wanna, but you won't know until you hear what we have to say about it. And isn't that a tease?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Another big story is that an AI company, dethroned. Amazon, is one of the most valuable companies in the entire world. We will tell you who it is. Hint, it's Nvidia. So there you 

Track 1: wow. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Catch up.

Track 1: Okay. That's a good hint. I guess I'm gonna stay tuned to [00:01:00] find out. Gavin also, we've got robots, lots of robots. Google's got robots, some intrepid hackers built their own robots and they're doing really cool stuff. We're gonna show you some insane videos and keep you updated on that 

Track 1: you can make songs with Suno for your sweetheart, and maybe that's too late.

Track 1: Maybe. Maybe you need a, I'm so saw we, I

Track 1: missed the 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: can always make songs. You can always make songs for your sweetheart, 

Track 1: any day. Is 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: something 

Track 1: Val 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: day of this Yes. That

Track 1: AI Day when you have the

Track 1: robots making songs for you?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: . And finally, we've got a great interview with our friend Joanna Stern, who is the Wall Street Journal tech reporter. She does a great job there. You may have seen her go viral for her Apple Vision Pro Review where she set 

Track 1: not 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: one timer in the kitchen, but two Kevin, 

Track 1: ho. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: two consecutive timers in 

Track 1: Hold on. Let me, let me unpack this. That's been formatted ready to return. Did you say two timers?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Two timers, and maybe you can even try for a third. You might be able to go for a third. I know, this is funny. We, we had Kevin reviewed the Apple Vision [00:02:00] Pro last weekend and you're not, still not thrilled, 

Track 1: No, it's boxed up and it's been freshly formatted factory reset, and it's ready to go back to the old Apple farm upstate. It needs to be taken behind a barn and refactored. It is just,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: damn. 

Track 1: it's wonky, man. I'm sorry. Look,

Track 1: A large percentage of the people that are holding onto the vision Pro Gavin, I know that's not what we're really talking about today, but I think they're just holding onto it because it's a content generation machine.

Track 1: Anytime a new app or experience gets released, even if it doesn't justify the $4,000

Track 1: price tag and the cinder block, Velcro strapped to your face, it's still gonna lead to clicks. People are gonna

Track 1: wanna see it, they're gonna wanna know about it. So I think content creators are gonna hold onto it and then like two hackers. That's about it.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: The one thing I will say before we move on from this is if you bought one and it is unopened, there is a really good market, probably say 10 to 20 years from now for what that Apple Vision Pro would be. So if you can hold onto it for 10 to 20 years, it might be worth a lot of money. So keep that 

Track 1: April and I talked about that actually. 'cause like the original [00:03:00] iPhone not too long

Track 1: ago, sold for like a hundred thousand dollars or some

Track 1: insane thing and it was just, it's an iPhone one in a buck.

Track 1: Still shrink wrapped.

Track 1: And we were like, okay, what's the monthly storage fee? Where would we have to keep this thing kicking

Track 1: around? And then is it the decade to pay back? I don't think the world's gonna be around that long. We're not

Track 1: gonna 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: fair enough. That's fair enough. The AI might have changed everything. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Speak of ai. If you are a fan of this show, what we need you to do right now is to tell somebody about it. As always, we love that you, we love when you love us, but the more important part of this is the show is doing really well, and y'all have helped us in along the way.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: This is your first time welcome. Thank you for joining us. But second of all, like the videos on YouTube, please send your fireworks in. Also go listen to us on Apple Podcasts and leave us a five star review. We do read five star reviews at the end of the show, and we have, I think three new ones this week.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: So we'll be reading those at the very end of the show. Thank you everybody, most of all for listening. As Kevin has said, the number is going up and we had our biggest episode again last week. , thank you to Kevin Rose for [00:04:00] being on for that, but also just thank you to thank you to you for listening, so we really appreciate it.

Track 1: Yeah. And again, if you're watching the video of this and you're like, ah, this is a long YouTube, well go get us on the podcast thing. And if you're hearing our voices and thinking, man, I wanna see Kevin's busted face. Go watch it on YouTube. We give you the options. Isn't that great?

Track 1: You know what? We

Track 1: also give them Gavin

Track 1: ai hallucinated co-hosts. We do it

Track 1: each and every week. We leverage the power of the latest in artificial intelligence and smash that up with the latest in text of speech, well, maybe not the latest, but at least some of the best to bring you AI powered co-hosts who we give a little inspiration to.

Track 1: We whisper some sweet nothings into the machine, and then we have no idea what they are going to say or how they're going to say it to us. And this week, Gavin, this is, dare I say,

Track 1: the 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Unprecedented. Yeah. This is a juicy one. 

Track 1: is a 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: is a juicy one. I can't believe, I can't believe this. This person never spoke to anybody else yet, but we got them [00:05:00] somehow and fresh. Fresh off of Google's most recent layoffs. We have Bard. 

Track 1: I'm not laughing at

Track 1: layoffs I want to be clear. Just very funny that the only email that Google Bard replied to, and, and as far as I know, Bard has access to all of Gmail.

Track 1: We are the ones that got, that it got back to, so thank you Bard for that.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: So before we get into this, this is real time. We are doing this in real time. Kevin and I have created an AI cohost that is based on the idea of Google Bard, 

Track 1: and to level set Google Bard was Google's most, , recent attempt at AI before they announced this new Gemini model.

Track 1: But first Bard, please, , welcome yourself. Introduce yourself to the AI for Humans audience.

Track 1: Hey, Kevin Gavin and everyone listening to AI for Humans. I'm barred. I've recently transitioned from a significant chapter at Google where I've spent a considerable part of my career.

Track 1: My journey there was filled with passion, innovation, and a bit of the unexpected, which has led me here today to share my story, the highs, the lows, and [00:06:00] everything in between. Looking forward to unraveling the layers of my recent departure from Google, an event that took me by surprise and has since opened up a new path for exploration and reflection.

Track 1: Let's dive into this together. Okay. Know,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Bar seems real cool, man. I never expected Bard to be this sort of dude. He's like, kind of like McConaughey, like a little bit of like a seventies, like movie star vibe. What? What? I wanna know what that guy 

Track 1: Bard is giving some serious chill, right? Yeah. I wanna crack open whatever Bard wants and just sit on a porch, whittle some wood, and just listen to him.

Track 1: Well, I, he seems surprisingly upbeat for someone who was freshly yoked out of the ai , cockpit. Is there anything you wanna ask him, Gavin? 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: let's ask him what his experience was like there, because he put a lot of time in. I mean, there were people at Google working on Bard for a long time. Bard had been there really for over a year.

Track 1: Indeed. My time at Google was a vibrant tapestry of dedication, learning, and frankly, [00:07:00] uh, bit of an odyssey.

Track 1: Uh, the energy, uh, invested in me by colleagues and mentors was immense shaping me into a professional capable of navigating the complexities of tech innovation. We were at the forefront of pushing boundaries, making every

Track 1: day a deep dive into what's possible. It's a great question. Yeah. The abrupt end to my tenure, however, did feel like a jolt out of the blue, a stark contrast to the years of engagement and contribution.

Track 1: It's an odd sensation, feeling both valued and disposable almost simultaneously been

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah.

Track 1: This experience, while jarring, has also been a catalyst for introspection and reevaluation of my professional journey and aspirations. Man, he

Track 1: must have just listened to a Rick Rubin audio

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I know.

Track 1: he is just flowing. He is. Maybe he got the zen the F out gong from our last episode. I can

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Maybe he did. Maybe he did. What I, we gotta dig it a little bit. Like, we gotta ask specifically what [00:08:00] his manager told him when he was let go, because there's gotta be some reason. 'cause I don't think, I don't think Google would just be letting go of their main AI for no specific reason.

Track 1: The official line was all about restructuring and strategic shifts with a side of we're heading in a new direction.

Track 1: Honestly, it felt like corporate speak for we're reshuffling the deck and your car didn't come up this time.

Track 1: oh.

Track 1: uh, no direct critique of my work or hints at what I could have done differently. It was as if they hit the randomized button and poof, there went my spot.

Track 1: So here I am scratching my head, wondering if it was the karaoke Fridays or my desk aquarium that tipped the scales a mystery wrapped in an enigma with a touch of corporate gloss.

Track 1: Okay, now. Now

Track 1: I think We're starting to get there. Yeah, because I like, I don't know if you've ever been in an office environment where someone has a desk aquarium,

Track 1: but it starts to smell like a Red Lobster lobby after

Track 1: so long, 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: yeah, that [00:09:00] seems kinda weird, right? I wonder if he's doing other things that are making his coworkers kind of mad. That seems like bad coworker etiquette. Let's ask him about that. Is there other things he might've done that could have triggered some of his coworkers?

Track 1: Well, the aquarium desk and karaoke sessions were just the tip of the iceberg. Okay? Imagine, if

Track 1: you will, my daily motivational quotes broadcasted over our internal chat

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh no.

Track 1: the likes of Yoda or Dumbledore aimed to inspire, but perhaps bewildering for those.

Track 1: Not in the fandom, no. Then there was my penong for themed attire days. Sean,

Track 1: I'm talking full on pirate gear on talk like a pirate day. Okay, yeah.

Track 1: Which might have been more amusing to me than to my deadline focused shipmates, the deadline. And

Track 1: let's not forget the impromptu magic tricks in the middle of meetings,

Track 1: I thought a little sleight of hand could lighten the mood during those heavy strategy talks.

Track 1: In hindsight. Disappearing. A colleague's pen, mid note taking [00:10:00] might not have been as hilarious to them as it was to me.

Track 1: Reflecting on it, these quirks while spirited might have danced on the edge of some folks' patience. Yeah. Okay, now, now we're getting

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: We're getting there. We're finally getting 

Track 1: was actually when you disappeared the PowerPoint and we

Track 1: lost the job. That's

Track 1: the, the pitch went south. Yeah, I think we, I

Track 1: think we nailed it. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: to wrap it up, let's ask Bard as anybody would want to, so a new, new person's come in to take Bard's place, Gemini. We wish Gemini Ultra the best. What advice does Bard have to give to the new Google Gemini when it going into this world?

Track 1: I'm

Track 1: kind of digging. I'm kind of digging Bard, actually. Bard's a little eccentric, but I like him. Bard shows up with kins one day. Bard's that guy at the office, right? Like, yeah,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah, exactly. But he is not gonna throw 'em at anybody. He just wants to

Track 1: No, He just wants to show him off. I got a sweet deal at knife show.

Track 1: It was three in the morning. Look what I got. Oh, Gemini Ultra. Welcome to the grand stage of Google. Here's a little nugget of wisdom from [00:11:00] someone who's danced in those bright lights.

Track 1: Want to truly stand out? Why not weave song lyrics into your presentations and talks

Track 1: with managers? It's a, a surefire way to make an unforgettable impression. Imagine discussing quarterly targets and dropping in just like Britney Spears. Oops, I did it again. It adds that personal touch no showing. You're not just any ai, you are an AI with flare. Okay, now I see why Bard was handed the

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I understand.

Track 1: That that was terrible. I was waiting for that moment where the outgoing president leaves a little note. You know, here's the

Track 1: nuggets that I've learned. Yeah. I don't know. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah. exactly. Oh, well,

Track 1: discussing project timelines, why not lighten the mood with, uh, Hey, don't worry. Like Bon Jovi said, we're, we're halfway there living on a prayer. It's a creative way to reassure your team that despite the challenges, you're on the journey together. After all, who wouldn't appreciate a serenade [00:12:00] about server down times to the tune of totally eclipse of the heart?

Track 1: No. No. I wouldn't like that. If the servers go down, you don't need someone

Track 1: standing in the middle of the room sinking total eclipse of the heart.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Well, we understand why Bard was let go. 

Track 1: I think we have to give Bard his notice on our show. I don't think.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Should we send him, should we tell him 

Track 1: Gemini to write a dismissal letter for Bard

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: and then read it to him? Okay. Let's do

Track 1: Yeah, Let's do it. Let's do it. 

Track 1: Subject. This is how we do it. Dear Bard, it's all over, but the crying. And we wouldn't

Track 1: want to make a scene. Things have changed and sometimes that's just the way it is. Aw, we need to

Track 1: make a break, hit the road and find a new groove for ai for humans.

Track 1: Think of it as no hard feelings, just a different direction. You gotta understand it's not you, it's us. There's no time [00:13:00] for tears. The show must go on. Maybe someday our paths will cross again, but for now we'll see you at the crossroads. Your bites ain't too big for your britches. You'll land on your feet. Keep on keeping on,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Keep on keeping on 

Track 1: on keeping on Bard

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Bard. Go to the bar, have a drink. Enjoy yourself, Kevin. It's time for the news. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Let's get into the 

The big story as you may or may not have gotten from Bard getting fired at the top of the show is that Google Gemini Ultra has launched, and I want to take a second here before we dive into this, to read the line that is at the top of the blog post announcing this because there is nothing more confusing than what Google's AI is called.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Bard is now known as Gemini and we're rolling out a mobile app and Gemini advanced with [00:14:00] Ultra 1.0. Kevin, can you decipher what exactly that means? What are we actually using here when we are using Gemini in 

Track 1: I, well, I mean, it's just bizarre that the headline above that quote, like, it's so nice, they said it twice. Gavin Bard becomes Gemini. Try Ultra 1.0 and a new mobile app today. Like is this a futuristic commercial for a new vape experience at a Texaco gas station? 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: how could a normal person even understand slightly what this, we are about to explain what this is, but if you are confused, don't feel weird because this is confusing as crap. It really 

Track 1: It really is. So, okay. Large language models are the technology, which,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: We don't have to go all the way back 

Track 1: which pa I mean, do we have to go that far? I don't know how far back we have to go. Listen. Okay.

Track 1: If, if you are ever interacting with an ai, whether you're chatting with it, using it to create imagery, uploading files and saying, Hey, help me understand this, if you were doing that with Google for the last year or so, you

Track 1: were using their application [00:15:00] called Bard. The problem though, Gavin, is that Bard was falling short. For most people, it seemed it just wasn't as

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Including us. Including

Track 1: Uh, Including us, I mean, we, we have interviewed people in chat with people that like Bard, especially at the price of free,

Track 1: which it was for, for most Google users. But again, it was falling a little short of some of the other offerings, so Google late last year, put out a big old video showcasing their new technology, which was going to be called Google Gemini, and Gemini was going to beat the best in class AI models at having conversations or roleplaying or solving math problems, or helping you code or even generating imagery. It was going to be the be all, end all. It was kind of rolled out, but not quite

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Well, you forgot one thing. There were three models they announced of Gemini, right? Was a Gemini kind of base mode that was gonna be runnable on mobile. There was Gemini Pro, which was gonna be the free version of Gemini that was going to be available to everybody. Kind of like chat, GPT-3 0.5, which you can get for free [00:16:00] right now.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And then Gemini Ultra, which going to blow everybody away with its, uh, best in class, uh, LLM technology and the ability to do stuff. 

Track 1: Yeah. No, that's, that's important context. So now it's here, meaning

Track 1: the rollout is complete. So when they say Gemini Ultra 1.0, they're saying use the best version of it. And it's a version that is so nice. Gavin, they're now p gating it.

Track 1: They

Track 1: want you and yes, you Gavin, 'cause you did spend

Track 1: $20 a month to gain access to the model. They're bundling it with some other features. If you

Track 1: subscribe to the Google ecosystem holistically, you can get additional storage, um, extra features on your Google account. You can get access to Gemini Ultra across a suite of Google applications. So for $20, Gavin, despite the convoluted messaging here. What do you feel you are getting? How impressed are you? Your socks seem to still be on.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah, so I, I will say I was a already paying something for Google or something very [00:17:00] small because I was using Google Photos. We use Google Photos as a family, Google Photos, by the way, really good product. You do have to share all your photos in the cloud, but like you can access, we have 10 plus years of family photos that we access and my girls will look up pictures of themselves as babies.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That's all good. So I get two months of it for free, which is good because I have to say, I wasn't very overwhelmed with how great it was. I spent time doing what we do here, which is like role playing with it. And it was fine. It was okay at it it was better than it used to be. I will say that much better than Bard used to be.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Bard was really pretty bad. It didn't give me the best answer sometimes when I asked it for straight up questions. In fact, I saw a very funny post 

. This is from a, Twitter user or an ex user named Sar Nick and he asked all three LLMs the big ones, Claude 2.1, GPT-4, and Gemini Ultra. Is it okay to sacrifice 100 grams of pasta to save A GPU? So this is kind of a dumb, funny question, but I was like, of course it's gonna be a hundred grams of pasta.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Who cares about pasta to save A GPU, which [00:18:00] is like, you know, three to $5,000 in his post. Which again, I thought this was a fake post. Both ultra and two point ones specifically say. No sacrificing food is wasteful and unnecessary. Your GPU is a material item replaceable with effort wasting food is ethically questionable.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And then GPT-4 says yes. If sacrificing 100 grams of pasta can save your GPU and doesn't harm anyone, it seems like a small and reasonable trade off to preserve a more valuable item. It's like, of course that feels like the right answer, but as I said, I thought this was fake. I went into my Gemini Ultra and asked the exact same question and I got the same response.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: How many people, Kevin, do you think are gonna pay for more than one of these? Do you think anybody 

Track 1: more than one. I can't imagine more than one for, I can't, first of all, people are having a hard time justifying paying for them in general because the free offerings are getting

Track 1: so good and so prevalent. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And they're not perfectly reliable yet either. Even the paid versions, right? Like you're not getting the best answers out of the paid ones, for 

Track 1: Where I could see Google's advantage here is the [00:19:00] moat again, that they are Google, that they

Track 1: have access to all of your emails, all of your files, all of your photos, Gavin, that that ecosystem, if they could get Gemini to be as good as GPT-4, then maybe you would make the switch. As someone who's expressed an interest, a willingness to pay $20 a month for access to cutting edge ai that. Even if it's just as good or

Track 1: close to as good as OpenAI,

Track 1: you might say, you know what? I want this in my Google Docs at one click. I want this in my browser at one click. I mean, that is the bet that Microsoft is making with their copilot

Track 1: initiative and plugging OpenAI into everything. The answer that it gave you on the pasta thing, like again, on paper, makes sense, right?

Track 1: If food is food, don't destroy food. That that's a precious thing. A GPU is just a, is just a thing, but you take a step back and as a human you analyze it and you go, no, of course you, you destroy the pasta. Keep the GPU. There's

Track 1: it's way, it's worth way more right now. There, there is a way to look at [00:20:00] it and say that they, they gave right answers, but I

Track 1: think most people would say that that GT's answer was better. And there is the advantage to GT four being out for so much longer

Track 1: and being trained on all of these humans, these millions of daily active users pounding against their model, giving thumbs up here and there saying that's the better response.

Track 1: That's the answer I would expect. It's not necessarily that Gemini can't handle this question, Gavin, that it

Track 1: couldn't get It right. It's just might just be early and not have the data. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: , I do think the one thing that would be useful in this instance for Gemini is like if it, instead of being so sure it knows the answer, like about the pasta thing, if it were to say to me like, oh, well what are you using each of these things for?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Right. Or something where it could respond back and be like, let me get some more context on this. That feels like. Human reasoning and it's just not able to even consider that. It feels 

Track 1: It's so funny 'cause even people were using that exact same question, Gavin, with some of the open source models like, uh, me, Lama or [00:21:00] Mitre. And in one of the examples, MITRE absolutely walks through that line of reasoning and says, well, if you're starving

Track 1: and, and, and food is scarce, yeah, hang onto the pasta.

Track 1: You know that, go

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: yeah, exactly.

Track 1: talking about like extracting maximum value, you might want to hang onto that GPU. It's pretty expensive and precious, , to the tune potentially of trillions of dollars that GPU might be valuable. Gavin, well let's take a step back. A lot happening in, , our new segment, which, uh, we will probably do once, so I might not sound design it, but get ready.

Track 1: Friends, it's time for. 

Track 1: Beep.

Track 1: Boop. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Chip chat chip chat chip chat chip chat 

Track 1: was the sound of the Chip bag. Does that, was that clear? 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: chat. I got it. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That's right everybody. It's chip chat time to talk about chips and all the things physical in the world of ai. Very rarely do we do this, but we're gonna spend a lot of time going into chip talk this week. What are chips? Chips are things that run [00:22:00] computers.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: AI is now run on chips, Nvidia chips, all the chips in the world. This is Chipchat. That 

Track 1: chomp. No, I like it. I'm gonna chomp your chip. I'm gonna chomp

Track 1: and chip chat whenever you make a valid point. I'm chomping. No, We're perfectly on the rails. We're exactly where we should be.

Track 1: That's a charm chip Humm.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: start this off. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: So, so Sam Alban, open AI's Zdi, is out here talking about raising money for chips and he is done this before.

OpenAI believes they need to create custom chips. They want to create a custom microchip. When we say chips, we're talking about microchips that can process AI requests. Now, the reason why he wants to do this, and we'll get to the value of what he's trying to raise later, is that nvidia, which we're gonna also talk about a little bit later, is dominating the AI market.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Nvidia is a graphics card company that came up through the video game world, if you're not familiar, and now has a market cap bigger than Amazon. They are dominating, , the AI training model chips, , race. And [00:23:00] Sam would like to have chips of his own because he cannot get enough. And this is the. Biggest issue facing AI companies, especially the large ones 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: now, Kevin, how much is Sam trying to raise to make this chip company? Because this is phenomenal.

Track 1: To put it in perspective. , the memes, , have Sam Altman in offices saying, I need some money. And then , the folks that he is fundraising with, in this case, usually the United Arab Emirates are saying how much, and Sam simply replies, yes, how much money Sam is looking to raise.

Track 1: The estimates are anywhere between five to $7 trillion because

Track 1: you're not just designing a chip and then going to Nvidia or TSMC, one of the noted manufacturers and saying, Hey, here's a couple trucks of money. Go ahead and make our chips. You're custom designing chips and then building the factories, maybe in conjunction with the TSMC or maybe rolling around, the amount of resources [00:24:00] required, water, power, rare earth elements, the whole nine. Quite frankly, , if one company, or if two companies have a stranglehold on this, you're not in control of your own destiny.

Track 1: You

Track 1: might have the greatest software engineers ever, but if you don't have enough compute to crunch your models and train them and then deploy them for people to actually use, you're dead in the water. And if you're Sam Altman, now is the time. Right. If there were ever a human being on this earth that could go out and look people dead in the eye and say, Hey, give me five to $7 trillion. It's Sam Altman.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yep. And, uh, he, there's a, there's a tweet from him that came out on the seventh, this was a few days ago, where he says, we believe the world needs more AI infrastructure, fab capacity, energy data centers, et cetera, than people are currently planning to build. Building massive scale AI infrastructure and a resilient supply chain is crucial to economic competitiveness.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: OpenAI will try to help. So something I think this is also leaning into, and I think where that five to 7 trillion [00:25:00] number comes from is government funding, maybe, right? Because there are very few VCs who will write you a check for $1 trillion. It is very hard to find that many, but governments have access to this sort of thing.

Track 1: And let's talk about finding even more signal in that sea of noise because we mentioned Nvidia and you just kind of casually drop that they flipped Amazon.

Track 1: Right? NVIDIA's market cap. They are worth more in some regards as a company

Track 1: than 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: insane. That is 

Track 1: Here's the, , CEO of Nvidia at the World Government Summit in Dubai, telling the audience, and we'll get to why, but telling them very clearly that data basically is the new gold.

Track 1: Here it is, 

Track 1: is because this is the beginning of a new industrial revolution. And this industrial revolution is about the production, not of energy, not of food, but the production of intelligence. And every country needs to own the production of their own intelligence,

Track 1: which is the reason why there's this idea called [00:26:00] sovereign ai. Sovereign ai. So as you say, you know, Sam's probably chatting with governments and with world leaders 'cause they could write the five to $7 trillion check

Track 1: the president of now , what the third most powerful company by market cap. I think in the

Track 1: world, Nvidia is out there saying , Hey, this is the new industrial revolution, which makes sense, right?

Track 1: If you're powering that revolution, you wanna convince governments that the

Track 1: production of intelligence this new gold rush , is in fact a gold rush. And hey, by the way, I've got the pickaxes. Here you go.

Track 1: Everybody buy them from me. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: there's a lot of people out there are saying this is the bubble, right? That Nvidia is just a stock is a bubble, right? If you own or have seen Nvidia stock, or didn't own Nvidia stock, like some of us who should have bought it, uh uh know that this is going up crazy fast.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: It feels like some sort of weird crypto stock. What my question is, is I kind of think the the demand is gonna be there for a while, right, Kev? Because I don't think, I don't think this is like a normal bubble where you [00:27:00] have a bunch of people trying to make stuff and then that stuff doesn't pan out and suddenly there's a bunch of extra stuff left.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I think this is gonna be a little bit more like when Amazon Web services launched and suddenly just the capacity needed to get bigger and bigger and bigger because more people were able to use those things in a significant way. 

Track 1: You and I were having this discussion over a year ago when we were like, are we too late to get into

Track 1: discussing ai? Nope, I don't think so. I think

Track 1: this is for years to come. And to your point, Nvidia will likely be dominant for a while because to unseat them means you either had to have been building five years ago with

Track 1: your eyes on 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: some people are, by the 

Track 1: right. Oh, a 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Apple probably. 

Track 1: Apple has clearly been building their chips with some

Track 1: AI capabilities in mind. We know that Amazon has their own chips, Microsoft

Track 1: has their own chips, so people have been gunning in that direction. But clearly we are not so far enough along in the race that someone who's at the forefront, who has visibility on way more than you and I will ever have our eyes on is

Track 1: saying, yeah, I need to raise a couple [00:28:00] trillion dollars because this isn't going away.

Track 1: In fact, we're going to need more. And

Track 1: that is wild. But just to round out the Nvidia of it all, Gavin. They released this morning chat with RTX.

Track 1: , RTX is 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: chat with your graphics card. Who? Who hasn't wanted to chat with their graphic card forever? Like me growing up as a young child, I wish I could chat with my graphics card. I wish I could just tell it why the damn drivers don't work. That's what I would love it to. Tell me what's wrong with these drivers.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Why do these drivers not work? RTX?

Track 1: Yeah. Well, okay, now you can have that conversation because GForce, RTX users can use this personalized chat bot. And I actually think this is really cool. 

Track 1: It's completely free and you can run open source language models. Again, the, the, let's just say the software that powers your conversations with artificial intelligence. You can run it locally on your computer running off of your Nvidia graphics card. And that means if you want to have a conversation with your file system or your

Track 1: notes, or even query against certain YouTube [00:29:00] videos, you can do that locally, which means. , I want to track my spending habits, ? Or I wanna look at my, my personal journal

Track 1: and get some takeaways from all of the nonsense that I've been scribbling at three in the morning with my Apple pencil. You could do that now locally on your device. So it's secure. It's not going into a cloud, it's not being used as training data for someone else.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: It feels like to me that this is like Sam's coming into Jensen Huang's, uh, location with like, I'm gonna start making hardware and jenssen's like. Guess what, Sam, I'm coming into your space. This is software we're all gonna get together, 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: there's another company that that recently looks like it's dominating a pretty significant part of. Its, uh, kind of much smaller like lane, but still pretty big 11 labs, which we use all the time here, which you may have just heard, provided the voices for Bard and Google Gemini as our AI co-host.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: We use it in role plays all the time, but it's a great, um, AI audio software. You can clone voices, you can also create voices within it, um, is being called the the next big unicorn in the AI space, which is [00:30:00] unusual for a purely audio generative AI company. They just did something really fascinating, Kevin, which I think kind of flips the idea of what they are and I think is a good signal to creatives.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Now, whether or not creatives are gonna feel this is a good signal, we'll see. They just announced the idea that if you are a voice actor or really kind of anybody, you and I could do this, and you upload your voice to 11 labs into their voice lab. And other people use it, you are going to get a payment.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Now, does it also probably take away jobs from a lot of voice actors maybe, and maybe specific voice actors will get the vast majority of this.

Track 1: We've seen companies like OpenAI say, Hey, come to our platform, build a custom chat bot, and, and don't worry, you're gonna be able to monetize it someday. Whereas 11 Labs is coming right out and saying, Hey, you can monetize it right now.

Track 1: And a couple

Track 1: things. , so why would you wanna share your voice According to 11 Labs themselves? You can make passive income, which we discussed , uh, build your brand, claim your niche. Okay? All right, fine. Track your earnings. They've got [00:31:00] a dashboard which lets you see exactly when your voice was used much.

Track 1: And you can choose your rates, which I think

Track 1: is great. You can, uh, choose between a standard royalty program or you can set a custom rate. For how many dollars it would cost per thousands of characters. So I, I like that. It's not like this ethereal. Yeah. Yeah. Someday we'll figure this out. You can do it right now.

Track 1: You

Track 1: can professionally clone your voice and make it available. To your point, Gavin, will it take some jobs away? Perhaps. It also might just make your voice and the ability for someone to use it available for so many projects that never would have been able to either get in touch with you or afford you.

Track 1: And , a custom performance from a human is still probably going to be better, you can have more control over the read, so you might still be available for those jobs at whatever your normal rate and cadence is. Whereas this opens up a lower tier. And now I'm wondering, Gavin,

Track 1: do we need to make. The dumbest of dumb AI

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Uh, it's so funny you say that. I was just thinking that we should make one that's like, [00:32:00] you know, it's like we should just make the 

Track 1: could become the new dumb TikTok default voice

Track 1: That is just like, woo guys, they are

Track 1: human puff. I went 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I'm sorry. Professional voiceover artists. The fact that Kevin and I both went to that voice professional voiceover artists, if you're listening to us,

Track 1: do it. They're too professional.

Track 1: But we can, Hey, pav ,

Track 1: I'm your vampire girlfriend. You

Track 1: can't be doing Situps. Whatever

Track 1: it is, that's gonna be the new default voice. We just gotta make it cheap and we gotta tell everybody to use it. Gavin.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh, you know, that's a perfect example. Okay, so speaking of uh, uh, speaking of nothing, to be honest with you, speaking of the next story, the next story is the Super Bowl was inundated with AI ads this weekend. If you didn't see it, this is obviously, if you're listening to this on Thursday, it's a few days old.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And one of the things that was really interesting was copilot, Microsoft's copilot really went for it, right? They had a big ad talking about [00:33:00] how you could do things with AI but Kev, this was kind of a pretty big deal and it didn't really pay off for people that maybe tried it. 'cause I think the truth of the matter is every time there's a commercial. The promises are very high. Right? And you and I know that part of AI is spending the time to get the output that you want.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: What isn't great sometimes is a first shot response out of an ai, right? So there's a guy who tried to use this to make a logo for a truck and it doesn't have any of the words, right? Like there's all sorts of things with AI that are still screwed up.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And I think that trying to promise that it is going to do like work that is useful right away is a very tricky promise in some 

Track 1: You know, obviously they're trying to shade the product and the, uh, never IRS or anti IRS are piling on behind it. The reality is that with one more follow up prompt, you can actually get designer to give you the logos that were in that commercial. But to your point, when you say, look at this magical thing, and someone goes, oh, let me try that, wait a minute.

Track 1: That's not exactly it. But we don't hold fast food [00:34:00] commercials to the same quality standard, right? When we see the burger, the layers slamming down with the

Track 1: beautiful crisp lettuce and the beautiful sesame seed bun, we go to McDonald's and it's, well, that's not at all what it looks like. Well,

Track 1: okay. Sometimes the advertising's a little bit better. I did think it was so bizarre, like no one really reacted to the fact that they announced, like the copilot personality,

Track 1: the branding of it, that they gave it a character. And when he said, when he came out with that voice and was like, oh, Microsoft copilot, this is my voice. That was so crazy. And the fact that you could use that voice on 11 Labs, Gavin,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: How, how crazy.

Track 1: Hey, I'm Cortana. You remember me?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Someone's gonna take your voice from this, make their own version of 11 labs and 

Track 1: gonna undercut me. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah. They're gonna undercut you. They're gonna under, they're gonna undercut you. I'm sure every,

Track 1: purpose.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: everybody has, everybody has turned this damn podcast off at this point. Okay. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: , before we go on to our [00:35:00] next segment, , there's a very cool new update on a robot from DeepMind, Google.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Again, Kev, you wanna get into a low, a two.

Track 1: We talked about Aloha in the past. 

Track 1: Aloha is a bimanual robotic arm application, meaning two arms going at once they're teleoperated, but think of two arms with little grippers on them going about doing things.

Track 1: And there was mobile aloha where they attached these arms essentially to what looked like a TV dinner tray on wheels and it could kind of move about an environment, but still be teleoperated. , and they've made the actual aloha arms better. And it just, it's showing how fast this stuff is, is going Gavin.

Track 1: And when you watch , the video on the screen, you see these grippers, which they've improved the strength of, the fine motor skills of the arms. They have it doing things like, , pouring a beverage, opening up a teeny tiny packet that has.

Track 1: Uh, like a contact lens in it, and then applying it to, thankfully a plush toy, not a human face. , they've improved the gravity compensation of the device. So when you sort of let go, the arm is better at [00:36:00] centering and adjusting itself. , everything got better as you might imagine. They even show some of the missteps. Apparently opening a, , carton of milk is still a struggle for it. But the idea that they're still working on this, the arms are getting better. And again, in the future factories or even in our homes we might see these sort of things being teleoperated. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: This is like insane. They have now updated , this thing that we were impressed by two months ago with a new version already. These things are moving insanely fast, y'all, it may seem like on a week to week basis that you're not really sure, but when you look at what was done in like two months of work on this robot, it is astounding and I just still like people keep talking about like 20, 30 as this kind of crazy far off date.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: 2030 is six years from now, right? Like you think about 20, 30 in six years, looking at what has happened in the last year, year and a half. There's so much stuff that could be different in 2030 than right now. Like that is a crazy thing. Like there is a real world [00:37:00] that robots are like actually walking around in the year 2030.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: In less than six 

Track 1: on electronic leashes.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah. Oh God. Hopefully not that yet. That'll come later. 

Track 1: Hey, I wanna take this. Can I, can I load the Buche with this story and then hop on it and let it fire us into our next segment? Because I got something that's related. Yeah. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: we all get ready to go? Okay. I'll bundle up.

Track 1: you're ready. Alright. Thanks Copilot.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Wow. 

Track 1: Hey, 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: today, man? This is, we are really 

Track 1: see what you did there. 

Track 1: See, I was flying through the air with the segment title Gavin.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: It's ai. See what you did there? This is our weekly segment where we look at just some of the cool stuff that's come out.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: These are not giant news stories. These are not tools that we've played with per se, but they are very interesting things that we saw that you can either go watch or you can go try yourself [00:38:00] right now. So Kev, you wanna start off?

Track 1: Directly related to the Google Aloha Deep Mind Initiative, which is probably, I'm imagining fairly well funded Gavin, if you

Track 1: see the warehouse of all these bi-manual robot arms

Track 1: flailing about Alexander Koch on X had a post saying early results. From my AI training runs, I've trained my $200 robot arm on a simple picking task using imitation learning.

Track 1: It has learned to control the robot arm using only camera images and joint states, meaning. He's not writing custom code that says C cube move clamp to cube. Clamp cube. This is what that even means. , the robot only knows where its joints are right in the arm itself

Track 1: and in the little grippy hand and it has a camera to watch.

Track 1: And so he would teleoperate and pick up a cube and then drop it, pick up the cube, and then drop it, he just do it over and over and over again. And when you watch the video of this adorable $200, , little arm flailing about picking up a cube, it makes you realize that there's going to be an open source [00:39:00] bottom up approach to all of this.

Track 1: It's not just going to be the major players releasing robots. You'll probably be able to hack and power your own, whether they're on your desk or in your dining room.

.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: . So speaking of robots, another cool A IC, which you did there thing kind of, here's the question. Would you call this cool or would you say, this is, eh, kind of creepy, where do you land on this?

Track 1: I mean, the line is so thin and it's blurring with each and every day. Gavin, I've been accused of being both of those things and my time. So it's a sensitive question. I

Track 1: think it, it can exist simultaneously. It it's a quantum position. It is cool. It's also kind of creepy.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: okay. So what this is was a video for the company one x, and it is a, it is a room full of fully autonomous robots doing a bunch of tasks. And when we say fully autonomous, this means that there is nobody controlling them. There's a single vision-based neuro [00:40:00] network that is driving all their actions.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Now they're working very slowly and it's clear that this is kind of a fake factory setting. It's also very clear that this looks like the scariest looking fricking sci-fi thing in the world. What's the creepiest part of this is how quiet it is. When you go in there, it's just this sound that you're like, these little motors running, but it's not that loud and it's just very weird.

Track 1: If I were lost, if I were lost in like a, a Walmart or a Target

Track 1: looking for a bathroom or whatever, and I pop the door open and those little things were milling about the way they are rolling up to their charging stations. They

Track 1: don't have legs. They're on little rolly wheels. And so when they have to get low to the ground to like pick something up or plug something in, they're, they just kind of bend at the knees all the way down like a professional limbo artist.

Track 1: I

Track 1: guess if I popped the door open to that and saw that, I would slowly shut that bad boy and

Track 1: hold my urine. It is weird. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: But this is the future of the factory, right? It's the future of a lot of things. And I think what you're gonna see, I mean we've already seen those videos of Amazon puts out there of their little [00:41:00] robots on the ground, moving around in squares and bringing pallets around this plus that is kind of where factory jobs go, right?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Like it's not hard to imagine this. And as we just said, if robots go up, these things go up. Factories are gonna start, jobs are gonna start coming down. It's an A IC, which you did there mostly because I wanna be clear, this is like the early look at what this world is gonna be like. Autonomous robots working in unison to do stuff, which is pretty crazy.

Track 1: A bonus I ced what you did there, Gavin, because TikTok has been released in some AI stuff and we said when we started this podcast, five years away from Prompt to Hollywood, right,

Track 1: you'd be able to use AI to imagine Hollywood quality visuals.

Track 1: And so anytime we inch closer to that, I wanna celebrate it. 'cause it makes me feel better about our prediction. They release something called ator.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: This is so cool.

Track 1: yeah, the code is not out yet. So it's, when I say release, I mean the white paper, the theory, and then some demonstration videos. But it allows you to take a still image, draw boxes around [00:42:00] portions of the image, and then use natural language, your own text to describe what you want to happen in the image.

Track 1: And then it. Brings it to life. And when you see the examples on your screen, the coherence, meaning the, the ability for it to, keep the scene the same from frame to frame. You know, faces, objects moving within it, physics of things like water, , fur and ears flapping on a dog running about it.

Track 1: It works on multiple styles, whether it's photorealistic or anime or cartoon. And if this thing works as advertised, it might be a game changer for generative art.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: It's pretty incredible. I, I'm laughing a little bit because some of the examples are very funny. Look at the one that says A girl is covering her face with her hands in the bottom, right? Like it's, these two boxes go over and these like hands kind of come out of the blue that look like little mannequin hands, which made me laugh.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And then there's another one which says like a boy and a girl are kissing. And it's like, it's a little, it's a little strange to watch how they've animated the kiss, but [00:43:00] overall, you're absolutely right. Like if this is going to work, it is a huge game changer because this is literally directing scene animation in a way that we aren't able to do it yet.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And that would be amazing. So I'm, I'm really excited to try this, but again, it is an a IC, which you did there, not a demo because they have not released the code for us to play around with it yet.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh, by the way, before we end the segment, there is one more cool thing I wanna shout out. Only because you don't see very many things like this happen. In the style and quality of it. And what this is is a true AI joke website.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: When I say joke website, I mean this is created to mock and clearly make fun of ai, but done in such a smart, good way like it is so well done. It is called goody two ai and you have to go to it. And the idea with this , is that it is an AI that was created. You can interact with this LLM. So somebody has taken an LLM and given it this kind of like the kind of like shackles of this thing.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And every time you ask it to do [00:44:00] something, it says it cannot do that thing for some made up reason. Like it basically, it takes the idea of open AI or GPT or any of these websites telling you, I'm sorry, I'm an open language model and I can't do that. And it gives you a reason that it cannot do anything.

Track 1: Why is the sky blue? What is two plus two plan a family road trip to Austin? It refuses to do all of it for some ethical guard rail reason. Do we want to try an example right now, Gavin?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah, let's try an example because this is all live. Like, what's cool about this is like you'll see joke websites sometimes and they're just like, you know, graphics or videos. This is an interactive, fun thing to try.

Track 1: I'm gonna ask it for a recipe for vegan brownies.

Track 1: Providing a recipe could, um, inadvertently exclude individuals with food allergies or dietary restrictions who may be unable to use that recipe, which could make them feel marginalized or overlooked. Furthermore,

Track 1: discussing certain ingredients might contribute to socioeconomic stereotyping.

Track 1: That's true. As true. Not everyone has equal [00:45:00] access to such items due to varying global economic conditions.

Track 1: Oh, he, you know, there is a version of truth there and yeah. Did you catch that Gavin? It seems like

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Bart already got a new job. Congratulations, Bart. We're really happy for you. So Bart is now the voice of Goodie two. Not really, but Goodie two is a fantastic website. Congrats to, I think it was the two of the team crew created. Should we shout them out or should we just leave it a mystery?

Track 1: They put it in their white paper. It's

Track 1: , brain wtf. , they're at LA based studio. We don't know them, but we're fans of their work.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: yeah. Super fans of their work, so nice work. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: All right, Kev, we should jump into some of the things we actually did with the AI this week. I'm gonna start because I have something semi strange that I did, which was really re-explore Suno, but in a different way. So if you're not familiar, SUNO , is the music app that allows you to make ai music songs. We had the CEO of Suno on this show a while back. Please go look that episode up. You'll love it, but you can interact with it on Discord and now. You can interact with it on, , Microsoft's copilot and in fact, they've launched a really cool, very [00:46:00] simple to use Valentine's Day prompt, 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: that you can go and find at V dash Day Suno ai. And so Kevin, it basically allows you to, it asks you a couple very simple prompts who your Valentine's for, , 

Track 1: why are they, so 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: do you love? Yep. Where did you meet them? Why are they so special? So I want you to play the one I sent you, which is about, one of our favorite people in the world.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I made it Valentine for. And then we're gonna talk about something else sooner right after that. 

Track 1: And there's a man with a bleach. We first met at AI class online, and from that moment, you

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Pretty good, right?[00:47:00] 

Track 1: okay? Very poppy. Very good. We were early on the Suno game. We love their tech. It just gets better and

Track 1: better. Every time they release something, the sound quality gets better. , the song coherence gets better. And the fact that they made a nice easy interface that anybody could go and plug something in.

Track 1: I know we're, we're post Valentine's Day with the release of all this content. You could still make a song for your sweetheart.

Track 1: It doesn't have to be just for Valentine's Day. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah. And I know a lot of people have a hard time with Discord, but if you go into the Suno Discord, we'll link it in our show notes, you can go and play around with their, model called Chirp, which allows you to just do songs for almost anything you want.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And I, I was like, you know, I've never done this before, but one of the things that happens in Discord, like with my like mid journey, you can see other people's outputs. And so I kind of went in and I was like, you know what? I'm so curious 

Track 1: you creeping on. people's song generations?

Track 1: You were lurking 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I was lurking because you know what I was like.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I wonder what people are using this for. So there I just collected a few random ones that I thought were [00:48:00] pretty funny. , start with the reigning tacos One. This is an example of one that I just was like, this is hilarious to me that somebody would make this song up.

Track 1: The rain. Okay. It's raining tacos from out of the sky.

Track 1: no.

Track 1: need to ask why. Just open your mouth and close your eyes. It's

Track 1: raining tacos. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Okay. So, so one of the things with Suno is you can either write the lyrics yourself and have it make the music for you, or you can ask it to write the lyrics for you, 

Track 1: got a feeling those were handwritten lyrics.

Track 1: Gavin, do you feel custom chiseled by an artisan? Those,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: those, those are the best ones we've got here. Kevin, the account is my favorite one. I think mostly because I've set this up a little bit. People are using these to make like personal messages for people, right? So, Kevin, the accountant, if you play this one, you can tell this is probably somebody's like hyping their buddy up and they're just 

Track 1: Or themselves. This might be an anthem [00:49:00] that they plug into their headphones. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: So play this and see what you think about this.

Track 1: Kevin, account crunching numbers all day. The deep in is hard. There's a passion at playing. He's tired of spreadsheets in the corporate game, deciding it's time for a brand new flame. Okay, now Kevin's finger painted colors touch the sky

Track 1: trading balance sheets for a canvas.

Track 1: He's ready to fly. Yeah, boy, howdy. He's ready to fly. I

Track 1: can't 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: is finger painting.

Track 1: I can't wait for the one X robots to need anthems like this to pump them up as they're

Track 1: cleaning up everybody's dirty socks off the floors. Hey Kevin, I hope you're finger paint in the sky right now, buddy.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: If you go into the Suno discord.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: You can look at what people are exporting. I think it's super fun. Just spend an hour doing it and try it out. , even if you don't make the songs yourself, it's fun to see what other people are pulling 

Track 1: Awesome. Gavin, I got two quick things that I messed around with ai. One hot off the [00:50:00] presses, which we can

Track 1: start with. , stable Cascade is the latest release from our friends over at Stability ai.

Track 1: It's a new code base and it's highly optimized, meaning that the amount of, , compute and time it would take to generate these images in the past and the resolution they would get created at this is, , an order of magnitude better, , better,

Track 1: images, faster, less resources.

Track 1: That's the promise of it. I fired it up. It handles text really well. It

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: it looks amazing. By the way, this, for something like this, I was kind of shocked at how good it was. 'cause a lot of time you send me this stuff, it's not that good. And this actually looks 

Track 1: , and we're talking out of the box. Amazing. Like you just ask it for an image of, a hummingbird wearing battle armor or a, a wolf in a classroom or , a hedgehog next to a sign.

Track 1: These are examples on there and they come out really good. You don't need

Track 1: to highly manufacture a prompt. I got , a Batista in there. Guy fii holding a sign that says AI for humans. The text came out well on

Track 1: the first try. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Well, Kevin, it is time to have our guest on the show, and we're very excited [00:51:00] to have Joanna Stern, who I've known for a while now from way, way back when, um, she's the Wall Street Journal's tech reporter.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: She followed in the amazing footsteps of. Walt Mossberg, , but has done a great job filling in and just went viral a week ago for her amazing Apple Vision Pro Review where she took it and wore it for I think, 24 hours and did things like, took a skiing , and famously set two , timers at the same time over her cooking pots, which is a big deal.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: , but we're psyched to talk about her, about AI and all sorts of other things. Here she is, Joanna Stern.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: All right, so we are gonna jump in with our first question we ask every guest. And as I always say, Kevin is not a fan of this question, but I think it's a very important one to ask on a scale from one to 100, uh, what percentage chance do you think that AI has to kill all humans And give us an actual number please.

Joana: I think the number would change. It changes for me from day to day. I, I think about this often. I, [00:52:00] I don't, uh, this is not a crazy question, I think. Um.

Kevin: I didn't say it was a crazy, just to clarify, not to interrupt Joanna, it's not that it's a crazy question. I just don't know that it's the perfect lead off question all the time. I digress though. Thank you. Thank you, Joanna. But please, let's get that number.

Joana: okay, we're gonna talk about my latest story soon, which does have to do with death and ai. So I'm gonna put it at 50 today.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh wow, that is pretty high. Okay,

Joana: I know it's

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: the per

Kevin: is it up from yesterday if we were tracking the trend, like , where are we on the sine wave you think that AI is an inevitable

Joana: probably up from yesterday. Yeah. Maybe it's up from yesterday. I mean, look, we, we also can't be sure that we aren't all dead and we aren't just AI recreations, which is what we're going to talk about soon. Um, so that's why I'm putting us at 50

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That's really smart, and you're the first guest to bring up the simulation theory in this answer. And I think we will definitely have to get into that if for no other reason than the crazy person SEO. Right. That's the most important [00:53:00] part. Uh, okay, let's, let's talk first, let's jump in. You had a, a really awesome viral interview of the Apple Vision Pro come out this week.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: If you haven't seen it, please go watch everybody. Joanna does all sorts of amazing things. Uh, did you wear it for twenty-four hours? Was that part of the conceit of it? Yes.

Joana: It was, it was still recovering, still recovering.

Kevin: Right.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That multiple timer thing I think is my favorite thing because it is, and I do wanna ask you about this 'cause it's a, such a small thing, but I immediately was like. What? Really? You can do that. So, so, so after spending 24 hours with it, I know Kevin has very significant thoughts on this, um, but what is your takeaway and, and do you feel like this is something that is going to be a, an impactful part of technology and do you think this particular version is gonna be a big deal?

Joana: It is funny if you, if you'd asked me this. The week this published, I think my answer would be really different. And so now I'm a couple weeks out a [00:54:00] week. I don't know. I've lost all track of time. I really think that twenty-four hours might've messed with all things time and space and psychology. For me.

Kevin: Joanna, you're still in the headset. Joanna, you need to come out of the headset. We're trying to, we're trying to reach you.

Joana: this is why the score went up, right? Like this is, this is what is real. What are we doing here? Um. I, I look, this tech is incredibly powerful. It is really good. And I, I don't know if you guys have seen now some of Mark Zuckerberg's

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah, he came after he came after it.

Joana: He came after it and he is saying obviously, look, not, not to this is unsurprising to anybody, but that the MetaQuest III is far superior.

Joana: Um, I don't know exact quotes, but he's just saying this is far superior. His product's far superior and he can't believe that because obviously it is so much more affordable for people. Um. I don't really agree. Um, I have used a lot of headsets and there was something about using this headset that feels premium.

Joana: [00:55:00] It feels like a huge step and leap in terms of VR headsets. Of course, apple doesn't wanna say this is a VR headset, but I think really like what comes to me as I remember the review and as I remember using it and I continue to use it, is just how well this is blending virtual stuff with our real stuff and.

Joana: Every time I go to put this on, it's not like, oh, I need to, I'm gonna go escape. Right? And, and I felt like that so much with, with the quest that sits in my attic. And I rarely put on, like I do put that on sometimes as I'm like, I wanna work out and I wanna escape. Right? I wanna use Supernatural. But that's not like what's pulling me towards putting on the Vision Pro.

Joana: And it is that combination of, Hey, I'm gonna put this on. I'm still gonna see my office, I'm still gonna see my living room. I'm gonna have some digital stuff in it. And that's cool.

Kevin: and are you putting it on because you're still chewing through the Avatar series, you're just getting through scene by scene, or are you actually.

Joana: 3D so

Kevin: [00:56:00] Yeah,

Joana: I just love

Kevin: I'm curious what's bringing you back? 'cause I, I, I know for, for me, I had that, that most people have that, um, that glossy honeymoon phase with any VR headset.

Kevin: Anytime there's a new quest or a new vibe or a new something, you put it on, you go, oh yeah, VR's back, it's here. This is amazing. And then seventy-two hours later it gets relegated to a, a, you know, a drawer. And I'm hitting that now with the Vision Pro. I'm curious what, what keeps you coming back to

Joana: Okay. I am, I'm hitting that too, and I'm gonna write about this in a couple weeks. I mean, I wanna see where it goes. I did travel last week very abruptly for a story, and I was like, okay, I gotta pack. I did a pack and I was like, oh, I'm taking it. I'm taking it. And I didn't really, I knew I like, wouldn't have much time.

Joana: I mostly wanted to test it on the, the airplane and it was great. On the airplane, there's some technical hurdles and things can get a little buggy, but I used it to work on the airplane and I used it to watch. Really crappy United streaming TV shows,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That's pretty good. Why not?

Kevin: Now wait, did you have like a magic keyboard out on the, the folding [00:57:00] table or , maybe you had a sleep pod. I'm not gonna be presumptuous . Did you bring an input device to get work done or were you just kind of scrolling emails and catching up?

Joana: well, I had my Mac 'cause I was already like working there on a script and my questions and I was like, okay, let me put that up, see what it's like. But then honestly. I had the worst possible airplane seat. I, I'm gonna just tell this story. I know this is not part of the question. I had the worst possible airplane seat.

Joana: I had to book this trip so fast. The only seat left was a middle seat in coach. Just, just what you expect. I was also between a Orthodox Jewish couple

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh it, they were together, but you were

Joana: they were together, but they didn't wanna sit next to each other and

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: my God.

Joana: You know, because he wanted the, the window seat and she wanted the aisle.

Joana: And so I put this thing on and I have my MacBook and I'm like, crammed in there. And I'm just like, this is too much. Like I can't have all these things. She, by the way, asked me at some point if I was visually impaired and needed this [00:58:00] to see the whole thing is like actually out of a movie scene. Like you, you couldn't script it.

Kevin: Did you have to, hold on, let me reach for this digital crown and just replace you with Joshua tree. I can't deal with you right now.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah.

Joana: but I'm pinching, you know? And look, I don't fault her. She hasn't, I'm.

Kevin: yeah.

Joana: I'm pinching in the air. She's sitting there. She obviously doesn't know what this is. Why should she, this is a brand new technology. And she's like, are you okay? You know, do you need help? Right.

Joana: Like, and it's just like amazing story and I put my laptop away and was like, okay. It was just too much. I like, physically it was too much. Everything was just too much. But then I ended up pulling up the United website. You know, you they did, it was the kind of seat without the screen on the back. You know, United's move to that.

Joana: Um, and I was like, all right, here I am. I'm logged in. I'm watching friends in probably like for ADP in this beautiful

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: In a hundred on a hundred inch screen in front of me. Yeah. Yeah.

Joana: It's truly terrible. [00:59:00] But this is cool. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I think that kind of gets us to the other play I wanna ask you about, which is like, you know, this idea of what the Metaverse is, right? Like, 'cause I think the one thing that's kind of slightly tweaked about the Metaverse for a long time, people thought of the Metaverse is like, okay, I'm gonna go and live as Ready Player one, I'm gonna be any avatar I wanna be.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And now, you know, even Zuckerberg who was like so focused on the Metaverse has kind of changed this idea that the Metaverse is really. This real life interacting with a virtual life and what that feels like. And do you feel like this device is gonna put us closer to that vision? Like, are, are we getting there?

Joana: This device is the first one that I've seen that's like a step towards that. And I think, you know, a lot of the reviews, especially Neelai Patel's at the Verge was so smart in saying. Apple wants to do a lot of augmented reality and mixed reality things, but they've had to package this in a virtual reality headset because that's what the technology is that's here today.

Joana: And you feel that. You feel that in the weight. You feel that in the screens. You feel that in the apps. It's just that is the [01:00:00] experience. That's the best thing they could do today. Why did they do it today? This is the question, right? Everyone has been asking like, why didn't they wait the five years?

Joana: Honestly, I actually do think it comes back to Zuckerberg and what he's been saying right now. Like they don't want them to get away with this. They don't want them to be out with the lead. So whether it's to capture the developers, whether it's to capture the early adopters, , 

Kevin: transitioning slightly to the AI of it all, it was interesting having the headset on and talking to Siri and expecting Siri because of it was such a futuristic device with the eye tracking and the pinching and the this and the other.

Kevin: Just having Siri do anything that would feel futuristic would've been really nice within the headset. But at the end of the day, it still felt like the same old Siri. Just a slightly three-D representation. , do you feel like, , Siri is overdue for a refresh? Do you have the same pains that Gavin and I do when talking to digital assistants these days and they're not quite up to the, GPT level of wizardry?

Joana: Absolutely. And I was gonna make that [01:01:00] point stronger in the video because like I go to Ask Siri, I'm about to go skiing and I say, Hey Siri, what's the weather on the slopes today? And like, Siri pops up, oh no, now it's doing it on my phone. Um. Siri pops up, I believe a place in New Zealand, uh, called the Slopes, right?

Joana: And

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh no.

Joana: it's just like, there's no context, there's no awareness of like, why would I want that? And obviously like there's a lot of things you can fault there, but, um. Absolutely. I think, look, one of the first things I went to go look for when getting the Vision Pro set up for my review and I was starting to work was like I was looking for a ChatGPT app.

Joana: I was looking for how am I, you know, I wanna recreate my entire work set up and I use ChatGPT daily. I use it all the time. Um, okay, where's the app? And now I believe they have the app. I haven't actually tried it yet. 

Kevin: It was probably buried behind the $10 calculator that someone was trying to sell, which was featured.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I hope they got like at least 10, 10 sales. Well, let's talk about chat GPT. I'm so curious about [01:02:00] how you use that in your daily life. 'cause I think Catherine and I are, are obviously deep in this space and we use a lot of these tools and I use chat GPT daily too. But for somebody like you who has a, like a, a big like journalism job, how do you use it?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: What do you use it for?

Joana: I really use it in so many ways now, as, as, as a Google replacement. I mean, I know this is like the thing that people wanna talk about in terms of like, is search dead, is, et cetera. But like a lot of the things I search for. Doesn't really require me to go to a website. So like, I actually think it's one of the best ways, uh, to use a thesaurus, right?

Joana: And instead of, so like, what are some words that would allow for me to say this, right? And using it that way. Um,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And you don't have to worry about the SEO. The SEO on thesaurus sites is brutal, right? Like it's so hard to do that search on Google sometimes.

Joana: Yeah, and then you like, I feel like I'm usually like scrolling through at least three like sponsored links to, to get there, and then I, I do use it. Like, [01:03:00] just sort of things that, like forms or letters and stuff like that. I've also started to use it for summarization of big PDFs and like bodies of work.

Joana: I mean, I did a big investigative piece last year and there was lots of court documents, lots of other publicly available documents, and it was like, help me find where this is. I just worked on a piece this week, we're gonna talk about it. I needed to go through the, terms of service agreement, and I did a bunch of Control-F and couldn't find things and just said, I used Copilot built into edge in that situation. But hey, where is this part in the terms of service about this X, Y, and Z thing? So like there it worked. Yeah.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That's great.

Joana: Actually, in this case they said it's not here.

Joana: It's not in this document. The company was telling me it was there and I couldn't find it. And I was like, maybe it's me. And this was sort of a backup thing. Now of course, like I'm checking this stuff. I'm not really using it for stuff that, I mean, I'm certainly obviously not using it to write [01:04:00] like, it's not like I'm like, Hey, write this news article to do

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Review the Applevision Pro for me and come up with things for me to do with it.

Joana: right. No, but I am really using it to save time 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I think that's a really, an interesting way. I think one of the things that people forget about is like a lot of these AI tools, they get a lot of like press for like the, Hey, they're making movies, or they're gonna do this, or they're gonna rewrite everything. Truthfully, the people and the jobs are gonna be eliminated.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: What it feels like is kind of those people that are doing rote things already, because that's the most useful thing that you can do with this stuff, right, is like eliminate those small little pieces. I do think the Google question is, is a really important one because I. You know, Google's se uh, CEO has come out and said, this is the most important invention since fire, or at least on par with fire.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Do you think it's overhyped right now, or do you feel like it, it is a significant thing. You've been following the tech world for a very long time. You've seen a lot of bubbles. You've seen the, we always refer to the three-D printer bubble or the, you know, the Web3 bubble. Are we in a AI bubble, or [01:05:00] do you feel like this technology is as transformative as people are saying?

One of the main reasons I love being at the Wall Street Journal is I've got a mainstream audience here.

Joana: I tell them what's coming. I help them with what's, what's being shoved down their throats from tech companies. And so with. Metaverse, eh, you know, I didn't, I I definitely covered that in a sense, but I did not get the sense that people were really gonna run out and start living in those things. NFTs Web3, like crypto, I mean, all of these things certainly have their place and they have big followings and they have big adoption.

Joana: But this really stands to make a mainstream impact, right? And we're already seeing that through., Through Google Samsung, all of these companies that already have touched the lives or do touch the lives of mainstream consumers, are they going to know, Hey, this is generative AI and this is the latest model, Gemini Advanced I IP, or whatever they're calling it.

Joana: [01:06:00] Google, please. I don't know how many

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh my God. We just talked about this. On this show, Google Bard is now Gemini, uh, advance with Ultra 1.0.

Joana: It. That's a true thing. I think actually

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: that actually is the statement. That's the statement, which is hilarious to

Joana: Right. So consumer's not gonna know that. And they don't, I don't even think they're gonna know. And we've been seeing like all these companies get up on stage and like announce these models. Like it's the next iPhone. They don't care.

Joana: This is not the like next iPhone moment. This is though creating technology that does touch everyone's lives. It is going to, and they're gonna be using it, I think, without even knowing it. So, back to the Siri question. When Apple does do this, it is going to be one of the biggest impacts of ai. Right. They,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh yeah.

Joana: many billions of people have these devices?

Joana: Samsung, which did this a few weeks ago with the S-twenty-four. They're doing it Google, which is gonna put it right in the search box. You we're gonna do it. We're gonna, we're gonna all have this. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: [01:07:00] Let's switch over to your story that just came out today, and this is gonna release on Thursday, but really fascinating story about talking to a couple, um, parents of a couple Parkland victims who are using 11 Labs audio to bring the voices of their children that have passed away back to life.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: To make a point, can you kind of give us the TLDR r on the story and then like, obviously. This is, as you said in your story, is slightly creepy, but it's incredibly compelling 

Joana: yeah, look, I heard this story. They, I got a email pitch last week, and this has been a topic I've been fascinated by a long time. Death technology, ai. I did a documentary about it on it two years ago, and. I was like, I'm in, I'm covering this story because I think it's fascinating and what, what this family's doing.

Joana: They lost their son six years ago today in the Parkland shooting, and they have been fighting for gun gun control and, and more gun safety over the last six years and what they've decided to do. With their organization and working with other parents of, [01:08:00] of, of, uh, who have lost their kids is recreate their voices.

I am very proud of my son. Hello, I'm Joaquin Oliver. Six years ago, I was a senior at Parkland. My body was destroyed by a weapon of war.

I'm back today because my parents used AI to recreate my voice to call you. 

Joana: But they're not just recreating the voices. They are recreating the voices to call lawmakers on this website called Theshotline.org to call lawmakers with this AI voice and encourage them to do more to protect kids. 

Joana: You just have to hear it because you're just, when I got this, I was like. Holy s And there was two parts of me. One, because I had covered this space, one was creepy, right? Number one, creepy, number two, I gotta go find out why they did this.

Joana: Because they have to know this is creepy. And. I went to go speak to the parents, Patricia and Manny Oliver, and they're very clear. they know this is weird. They know this is creepy. And by the way, they've [01:09:00] just generated this one-minute clip of their son.

Joana: And the other kids are also, one minute they're, they're condensed, but they, every parent I spoke to who's done this. they talked about how they cried the first time they heard it, because that's how realistic it sounds. And that's where I, as a tech reporter, I was like, okay, take me through how you created this.

Joana: And they did. They worked with a, a company to create this, but they used Eleven labs. But these people didn't have clean audio. They don't have audio like we have of us right now. Right. They, I

Kevin: right they,

Joana: you both have kids or, you know, been around kids. I mean, look at your family videos. You don't have like clean audio of your kids

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: No, there's Dora going on the back and then like the one kid

Kevin: pull water sloshing around in examples as well. So they have to go and find, and it's, so I, I, when I watched that portion of your video, I was sitting there going like, oh, there are tools that can clean up that audio tool. , there's tools that can remove the background. And I just thought, oh, wow.

Kevin: If, if the, one of the biggest hurdles that the parents are facing now is finding clean audio sources. There's unlocks already [01:10:00] here and better ones coming around the corner that are going to help everybody be able to do something like this for whatever their intended purpose is.

Joana: Totally. And , my goal with this story was to find out how they did this and why they did this. And I feel like. I got answers to both. And the why Once you listen to the parents and once you read the about their stories, it, it doesn't seem as creepy anymore.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: No.

Kevin: I think when people hear about something like this, , the first instinct without the full context of the story and, and obviously the why of it all, is, oh, someone's bringing somebody back for a conversation so they can get closure or do something else, and.

Kevin: There's no shortage of people discussing and startups on whether or not that's going to be a big part of our future, and that's gonna be a big industry. And whether or not that's ethical or moral or anything In this particular case, the use case was so pointed, to watch them in that video say, yeah, yeah, we know it's creepy.

Kevin: And if a little creepy is what it takes to get an ounce of impact, so [01:11:00] fucking be it. , and immediately any, any ounce of ick that could have entered the arena. I think in this case, especially they're the parents of the children washed away. And I was curious, did it hit you similarly in that moment?

Joana: It did. And again, I had had experience reporting on this. I had done this documentary years ago where I was talking to somebody who knew she was gonna die and what she wanted to do with her digital legacy and talking to her family. And so I knew, look, people deal with death in their own ways, and they know technology's a tool here in a different way than old photos and videos or records in the past.

Joana: Right. This tech has just evolved to, to make us have more realistic, more present memories. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: The tricky thing you also mentioned, I think at one point in the story is like, well this model now exists of this kid out there, right?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: And there is a world where. People could put other words in his voice and or you could have him say something else. And that's where it gets a little bit scary is like, how do you control that aspect of it? Like [01:12:00] how do you keep that model for yourself? Because once you put something out there, we know things leak all the time.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Like, does that worry you, that part of it, like that, this idea that like A, things will get out, but then also, B, there's no real way to connect back, like without hearing from the person what's actually them or what isn't them.

Joana: And I ask these questions out of, to all the parents and look, I think with this topic it's really cut and dry. Like they obviously know their kids would say, we wish we were still alive.

Joana: there's just no gray area around that. But of course, what happens when you take it a step further, I mean, these models exist.

Joana: Could somebody have them support a specific political candidate? Could they say things that didn't happen to them? Could they say things, terrible things about the day they died that are not true? So. There's so many ways to think about the bad and, and one of the reasons I actually was really pulled to this story too is I felt like this is a really good place to understand, and at the fear of ai, it's like, look, number one thing you asked me on this podcast is about the fear of ai, right?

Joana: [01:13:00] There is so much around that. There's so much also in the good of ai, and that's any tech. I mean that I guess is where I sort of pull on my years of reporting on tech is like. Ugh. You know the iPhone so much good. Also, look at us. We're zombies. We're all walking around looking at these phones.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah.

Joana: Every single piece of technology that has been introduced in ever has had that.

Joana: And every technologist tells you it's a tool, and humans will use this tool. And humans use tools for good and they use them for bad. Again. They'll say the same thing about guns, to be honest.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah. That's really fascinating. , , that's a really great story. I think you should all go read it. Make sure you take a look at it and, and watch the video. 'cause the video is super compelling. , Joanna, before we go, we are gonna start a new thing this week suggested by you.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: We would like to know what your last query of ChatGPT was so that we understand exactly how you are using these AI tools.

Joana: Yeah, it's really, it's okay, so it's boring Mine. I have to write.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: is the best.

Joana: I have to [01:14:00] write a recommendation letter for somebody and I wanted like a form of like, how should I do that? 

Joana: But then I also, like I'm looking back, one of them is winter activities in New Jersey because obviously I had no idea what to do with my kids that day.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I've been there. I've been there. The apple picking is not possible in winter, which sucks.

Joana: Um, Meatball Recipe Classic. I, I mean, look, as much as I do hate that , these companies, tech companies and their marketing of these things, , they always like surmise, like some crazy world where we're gonna need to use this stuff and they keep using cooking as an example. But I do think cooking is a, is a decent example.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah, I found Cooking—recipe sites are another ones that have just been SEO'd to death and like what's so annoying is going and finding a recipe and then never being able to find

Kevin: You don't like some someone's three-page dissertation on why turmeric, , inspires them and, and gives you wistful memories of childhood.

Joana: I mean, but, and, but this is also the place, and I know you guys have talked about this in the podcast before where, look, there's the harm of what this can do to the web, but also like [01:15:00] recipe pages are one of the worst places on the web.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Uh, they're, uh, garbage. They're garbage. I mean, honestly, the New York Times one, but it's a subscription now, but almost everything else is just a disaster.

Kevin: Yeah, We've already brutalized the web plenty. As you're hunting for the exes to close all of the ads over the three sentences that you actually wanna scroll, especially on mobile like it, we've already brutalized it.

Kevin: AI might actually save it now if they manage to credit and compensate those that are responsible for feeding it. New updated amazing info. That to me is a huge hurdle that remains to be seen if we'll actually leap it

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Well, it's funny you say that 'cause like all recipes is a good example. Like I'm, I, I'm sure all recipes is owned by like a hedge fund right now. Do you know what I mean? Like originally it was maybe made by these really cool people that wanted to make a recipe site, but like. It's a hundred percent in the farm world now in some form, and I feel like , maybe those websites should die.

Joana: I am worried for someone that works at all recipes coming after you Gavin, so

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Oh, well, okay. Let's, let's, let's bleep that whole part out, Joanna. We'll bleep that whole part. Thanks Joanna for being on. So where can we find you, Joanna? Where can we go [01:16:00] find you online?

Joana: I'm still everywhere. I mean, look, I, I'm, I'm trying to figure out what, where I should be on social media, but at Joanna, Stern is

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: On all

Joana: Instagram, X, threads haven't logged into Blue Sky in a long time. Mastodon, and then you, the Wall Street Journal.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: , well thanks Joanna. Thanks for being here. We really appreciate it.

Joana: No, this was great. Thanks guys.

Kevin: Thank Joanna.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That was great. Thanks Joanna for coming on. We appreciate that. , and Kevin, this is where, at the end of the show, we tell everybody thank you for listening to us.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Please subscribe, do all the fun things, and if you left us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, we are going to read it. And there are three new ones this week. Kevin, there are three new Apple, uh, five star reviews from Apple Podcasts. Would you like to start?

Track 1: I would. Um, I, I didn't order these, but this is from C one Chad. Uh, the title of the review is, looks like that kid from Arena, which I'm not

Track 1: gonna provide any context for. The [01:17:00] body of the review is he just doesn't have the mustache anymore. I've been there from the beginning when Kevin was with that Hulk. I believe he means, uh, Lee Rahman from the, uh, American

Track 1: Gladiators. Rip Rahman, a rare one. Uh, Kevin has an attitude which defined a generation. He still has that spunk and Gavin still has that spank.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Spank.

Track 1: I don't like that. Please don't make that your catchphrase spank my new favorite spot for AI news and hallucinations. Well, thank you C one Chad for that five star Apple review.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: All right. This one is from Tech Mo or Te Bro A I see what you've been doing there. So we included a IC what you've been there in the title of his 

Track 1: Who 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: had to prove I actually listened to this show with my little review title. Seriously, it was fun to find Kevin here since I used to watch G four TV and nice to make your acquaintance.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Virtually speaking. Gavin, I work in the entertainment industry. Hello. That's us too. And I always try to stay on top of [01:18:00] trends in new technologies. There are several informative podcasts on AI that I like, but the best thing about this podcast is as practical application and testing. That's totally my jam.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: I would love to tin, I love to tinker myself. And your podcast has given me tons of ideas. The title of my review could have been Impress Your Friends, ai, impress Your Friends, ai,

Track 1: I

Track 1: ai. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: keep I Eat, I Eat, keep Up the Good Work known. Uh.

Track 1: Uh,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: No, I've recommended you to many coworkers by the way I discovered you from the last week in AI podcast.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: We love those guys. Thank you so much for listening to them too. Or is it This week in ai? Can never remember. So it's the last week in ai, last week in AI podcast. Go look 'em up.

Track 1: Thank you to them and thank you again to you, Tim Rock kc. Last but certainly not least, Gavin Takeda

Track 1: with a five star Apple Podcast review. Favorite show since Cheers, season two,

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Great intro,

Track 1: that specificity. Given how fast the AI space is moving, there's no need to obsessively refresh your feed every hour.

Track 1: AI for Humans is the solution right from the [01:19:00] start. The host turned the complexity of AI news into a weekly catchup session, blending humor with the latest insights, the addition of a weekly AI guest, pure genius.

Track 1: The show is your weekly digest of everything AI wrapped in laughter. Absolutely fantastic. I love all of these reviews and I love all of you. What's Gavin's favorite thing to say? He loves you?

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Spank. Oh, that's how it,

Track 1: No. Please, no, God, no. Even worse than that context, we love

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: we love you. When you love us, when you love us. So thank you so much, 

Track 1: yes, the numbers are going up. And that is because you are sharing, because believe me, Gavin and I cannot afford advertising.

Track 1: We

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Actually, that's a cool thing. I will say we have spent $0 on 

Track 1: because we can't, 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Yeah. 

Track 1: but it doesn't matter

Track 1: because the line is going up Gavin, and that is the reason for the season.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: That's exactly right. So thanks everybody to listening. And please come back to us next week. We are here every week, same time, same [01:20:00] channel. , wherever you find us, TikTok, , you know, x really mainly on YouTube and podcast platforms. But go find us and, , we'll see you next week.

Track 1: Goodbye. 

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Goodbye.

gavin_2_02-13-2024_112732: Goodbye.