Google & OpenAI Prep For Superintelligence, New AI Tools & Twitch Streamer Gina Darling | Ep36

AI4H EP037 KP PASS
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Gavin: [00:00:00] Welcome! Welcome! Welcome, everybody!

Gavin: It is AI for Humans. This is your weekly guide to the wild and wonderful world of artificial intelligence. We are here to guide you through a human centric view of the machines and what they bring to our everyday lives. This is Kevin. What have the machines brought to your lives this week?

Kevin: Oh Gavin, so much joy, and so much pain. Because each and every week we play with all sorts of fun stuff, and that's in an effort to bring you fine folks the latest and greatest in AI tools. And we have unearthed some real gems, and some real stankers. And we're gonna get into both. We got some cool new tools, an AI video tool which lets you Anime all of the things you want to turn yourself into a Japanese cartoon or a pixelated character We got a one click solution for that that actually works and it's really cool plus a weird AI Companion app that is like the movie her but with less scar Joe and more emotional scar, bro Is that

Gavin: Yes. Yes. Yes. Let's move on. You did it. It's okay. We'll keep[00:01:00] 

Kevin: You used it, so you 

Gavin: Yeah. 

Kevin: that's wrong.

Gavin: It's, that's about right. That's about right.

Kevin: And then we have Google's DeepMind solving some , very difficult for humans math problems on the heels of OpenAI announcing that they've got a new safety plan because they are very concerned about AI and our future. And are those two things related?

Gavin: I guess they are, Kevin. We'll find out today, won't we?

Kevin: I was gonna spoil it and say probably not, but that's, that's okay. Let's say we will find out soon and we'll let you know how concerned you should be. , plus my dear friend, Gina Darling, she's a host, she's a streamer, she's got a new podcast with my other friend who is not nearly as dear if she is

Gavin: Oh, wow.

Kevin: Yeah. Ovilee. But our guest is Miss Gina Darling. She is an internet darling and she is here to give us her hot and mild takes on artificial intelligence. 

Gavin: But before we start, as always, please subscribe If you are listening right now, like and subscribe on YouTube, please leave and follow, follow us on, [00:02:00] uh, Apple podcasts on Spotify, leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts. Those sorts of things really do do help.

Gavin: They make the show pop more. We've had a lot of new people coming in, so if you're new to the show this week or last couple of weeks. First, thank you. Second of all, we are now going to put you to work, tell people about the show. That is the only way this show can grow. We want to keep getting out there.

Gavin: We've got some fun stuff coming up in the new year. We've got some really fun guests and we've got some, dare I say, press Kevin. We are doing some press, which is pretty exciting. But thank you again so much for listening and please, you know the, you know the slogan, we love you when you love

Gavin: us. 

Gavin: Ha 

Kevin: a Just, if you are a new listener, that's not an official slogan. That was just a slip of the tongue that Gavin is trying to make canon. 

Gavin: As we do every week, we interview an AI co host. We bring an AI co host on the show, and if you're new to the show, as per usual, we bring on somebody.

Gavin: This is a completely generated, out of thin air character that we use modern AI tools to create. [00:03:00] Mostly chat GPT, 11 labs, and different stuff. This week, though, we have a kind of a special guest, Kev. Who are we going to be talking to?

Kevin: I see, well, if you didn't hear the jingle jangle of those delightful silver bells, let's just, let's just put a mic up to him. Watch the beard there, buddy. Ho ho ho, hello Kevin, Gavin, and all the wonderful listeners of the AI for Humans podcast. I'm Santa Claus, the jolly old fellow from the North Pole. You might know me for my classic sleigh and reindeer.

Kevin: But these days, I'm also diving headfirst into the sparkling world of AI and automation. It's all about bringing more joy and efficiency to Christmas while keeping the magic alive. Wow. So, let's talk about how technology is making this holiday season brighter than ever. Oh, wow.

Gavin: that's amazing. I can't believe we got actual Santa. And Santa does have, I see in the studio, Santa brought in his number one elf, Max, and Max is there, and he's gonna be, it's nice to say hi to Max [00:04:00] as well, but let's ask Santa a few questions about this, because clearly, yeah, this is really

Kevin: when I think tech and holidays, I think, you know, a Black Friday deal on a new Microsoft Zune. You know, I, I think a door buster on a SanDisk hard drive. I don't think that up on the, the North Pole they're using technology to optimize our merriment. That's mind blowing!

Gavin: and also, imagine all the information and data that flows through the North Pole, right, Kevin? It's gotta be trillions

Gavin: of 

Gavin: parameters. 

Kevin: Even just the database on who is sleeping and who is not? That must be terabytes!

Gavin: So let's ask, let's ask Santa, what is Santa specifically using AI to do, uh, and how is he improving life at the North Pole and the work he does? And Santa, while you're listening, you know, I'd be happy to have access to GPT 4. 5 for Christmas. You want to bring me something fun? That's what I could look at. I know there's no rumors going around, but you'll find me, you'll find me very [00:05:00] excited on Christmas morning if I shows up in my, uh, GPT window.

Kevin: Hey, Sandy Claws, if you could find some runway credits and stuff them into my stocking. Eh, that'd be real nice. I'll leave some extra cookies out for you. Thanks, Santa. Ho ho ho, AI at the North Pole is a game changer. We use it to manage the naughty and nice list more accurately.

Gavin: Sure. Of

Gavin: course. 

Gavin: Ensuring 

Kevin: every good deed is recognized. It's also revolutionized our toy making process. AI assisted machines help elves create personalized gifts efficiently.

Gavin: Oh. Okay. Cool. Interesting.

Kevin: timely and precise present delivery.

Kevin: Plus, kids now send their wishes digitally. An AI sorts through these to catch the latest trends in Toyland. These innovations bring more joy and efficiency to Christmas, keeping the spirit alive in a modern world. It's all about merging holiday magic with cutting edge technology for a merrier Christmas. Ho! [00:06:00] Ho! Ho! Let's innovate! Ho! Ho! Ho! Let's

Gavin: I feel like, I feel like we got like an HP commercial or something on here. This is like, you know, some 55 year olds version of like what an innovation is. Okay. Before we, before we move on.

Kevin: the holidays are about logistics. What? At Oracle, we b No, Oracle! 

Gavin: No Oracle. Exactly. We don't want to Oracle here. I want to hear, like, what sort of efficiencies Santa's been able to figure out. is he, like, able to, , do more with the people he has?

Gavin: What is he doing with the, like, you know, labor efficiencies and all that sort of stuff? This is the kind of things people really want to know from Santa Kevin. They don't care about, you know, how he travels around the world

Kevin: Yeah, how do you make your reindeer fly? Who gives a flying fuck? No, I want to know how have you optimized 

Gavin: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. This is the kind of things our audience tunes in for., 

Kevin: A lot of professionals are racing to integrate AI into their workflow. Have you stopped to think of the impact [00:07:00] of artificial intelligence on the traditional magic? That is the holidays. And then how do your elves feel about the machines potentially encroaching on their territory?

Kevin: Ho, ho, ho! A very thoughtful question

Gavin: indeed Hmm. 

Kevin: Regarding the real magic of Christmas, I believe AI doesn't replace it, but rather enhances

Gavin: Of course!

Kevin: magic of Christmas lies in the joy, the spirit of giving, and the happiness shared among families and friends. AI helps us deliver that magic more effectively and to more people.

Kevin: As for my elves, change can indeed be challenging. But rather than replacing them, AI and automation are tools to assist them. Elves are inherently creative and skilled artisans. With AI handling the more mundane tasks, they now have more time to focus on what they do best. Crafting unique and special toys, and adding that personal touch that [00:08:00] only an elf can.

Kevin: We ensure that every elf at the North Pole feels valued and involved in this transition. 

Kevin: HO ho ho ho ho!

Gavin: That sounds, that sounds pretty interesting, Santa. Like, so I mean, listen, Santa's really,

Kevin: Gavin, that sounds like the pamphlet that every boss is going to hand out to their employees on the unemployment line about AI and you.

Gavin: like we said, we have Max here and Max is going to be impacted on this. So why don't we like, let Max, what, I'm curious to know what you think about AI. It sounds like your job actually might get a little bit easier. What do you think about that?

Kevin: WEll, to be honest, this is all news to me. What the hell, Santa? You don't think you could have told me about this before talking to the

Gavin: Oh, no

Kevin: Uh, um, Well, I did have an all hands meeting last week.

Kevin: Yeah, where you said everything was going quote unquote great. This isn't Great Santa, this is straight up job displacement.

Gavin: no, no,

Kevin: maybe we should move on to which of you has been a good boy, and which one has been a naughty little boy. [00:09:00] I don't like the way he said that. I'll tell you who's been a bad boy, it's Santa, you motherf 

Gavin: Oh, no,

Kevin: was up the way you've been smiling lately. Now Max, all this means is you'll have more time to sit on that shelf. You know what an important part of Christmas that is now. Oh no, that's not a good, that's not a good dodge, Santa. I Hate, hate that shelf! My ass has splinters in it every single day!

Kevin: You want ass splinters? Santa didn't think so! Okay, Gavin, I do think it's, we, this is our show and we need to jump in 

Gavin: Who? Max is on the Max is calling somebody right now. Who is he

Kevin: Bruno? Yeah, it's Max. Fat One is f us yet again. Oh, God. He's getting AI to take our jobs. Oh, sure. Yeah, I'll tell him.

Kevin: . Hey Santa? Yes, Max? You do this and old Bruno says he's gonna tell everyone about your jolly little HGH prescription.

Kevin: Oh! Oh no, no, no! Oh no, 

Gavin: Okay, okay. Wait, wait, wait. It looks like, it looks like we have some stuff to work out here. Santa, Max, you guys go in the other room. Work out your differences. It's the spirit of Christmas. We know you guys can figure it out. AI [00:10:00] change is coming and it's about how you communicate it as well too, right Kevin?

Gavin: You have to communicate to people in a smart way.

Kevin: No!

Gavin: Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin: No! I miss the old mall Santa. You sit on his lap. A kid's crying. There's snot coming from his nose. Someone ushers you on. You get the photo. That's it. I don't like all this new technology infused in here. Neither do the elves. I'm actually siding with Max on this one. I'm sorry, Gavin.

Kevin: I gotta

Gavin: you can go and live with the North Pole, Kevin, I'll live in the modern world. Go ahead, go live and figure out what Hermie wants to do this weekend. We'll have a different life. So anyway, that is AI Santa, for better or for worse. We hope everybody has a good holiday season and treats, their elves well in their lives, right?

Gavin: Make sure you take care of your elves. 

Kevin: Santa's natty. Santa would never inject that HG. 

Gavin: is not part of the liver king discord.

Kevin: ha ha ha. Santa's levels were low. It's clinical. Ho ho ho. Ha [00:11:00] ha

Gavin: right, everybody it's time to move on to the one of our favorite parts of the show it's time for the news 

News, eh, news, it's the A. I. for humans, news, yes, 

Gavin: kevin, some big, huge stories in the AI world this week. , really none bigger than the, again, the continual open AI saga. And the thing that just happened is kind of what I think you can think of as like a capper on the saga for now, right? All this stuff kind of went down about a month ago. And, if you're not familiar with what happened, you probably have been listening here, but open AI nearly imploded. Sam almost fire that was brought back. There's a lot of this conversation was possibly around the idea of AI safety, right?

Gavin: What AI safety means is basically how we protect ourselves from a future that AI could go rogue or might hurt both, it might hurt people at large, or we might be able to use the tool to hurt other people in some form or another.

Gavin: So it's a really important [00:12:00] conversation. Open AI Released a blog post called preparedness and what this is is they're laying out their new AI safety policy and Part of which is really interesting here Kevin is that the opening I board will have a chance to veto certain models And if they don't believe that a model is going to be a safe model going forward, supposedly, they will be able to say, no, no, no, no, no, Sam, you cannot put this out there.

Gavin: Now, the big question I have for you, Kevin, is

Gavin: how much of this? Yeah, 

Kevin: OpenAI. That's what they That's what the AI responds with, and then suddenly all their self driving cars are doing a destruction derby in the OpenAI parking lot. Good luck.

Gavin: Yeah, good luck. We'll see what happens. So Kevin, my question to you is, this is, This is a pretty big statement. It's a bold statement, I would say, and it talks a lot about super alignment, which is the idea that we want to try to align these systems so that they benefit humanity and don't hurt us. How much of this is lip service versus how much of [00:13:00] this is something that was gonna come anyway? What do you think the backstory on this is?

Kevin: Obviously, OpenAI folks within those walls are very concerned with AI safety. It was a founding principle. of the organization. It was rumored to be a large part of the reason why Sam Altman was ousted in the first place, some people were marching towards the path of profitability to get us to super intelligence quicker, and someone there wanted to pull an emergency brake, and so I do see this As maybe a concession, which is coming out of all that drama, as you said, Gavin, I don't know if this was in the works before Sam was ousted, but what we can see here on the OpenAI safety preparedness blog post is a bit of a rubric that is, as they say, in beta, but there's low, medium, high, and critical scoring lanes , for silos like cyber security, persuasion, model, autonomy, and what they want to do is rate this low, medium, high, or critical, the perceived danger [00:14:00] of the model's outputs, and then give it an overall rating, and what this task group is saying that is if it's medium to low, the model can go, which is not their official

Gavin: should make that their official slogan. They should do this by default. Medium to low, model can go. Now, why don't we do the next one?

Kevin: If it's critical or high, you're waving bye bye! And those are their official slogans. They used AI to

Gavin: We are the OpenAI marketing team, if you didn't realize that. Us and Max from Santa's Workshop, the three of us, are part of OpenAI's marketing team.

Kevin: Look, clearly people are concerned about this. There's safety built into the current models. They're talking about having the preparedness team be the safety check on the frontier models, this next wave of large language models that come out. And then we hit the quote, super intelligent models where Our human safety systems and humans in the process for checks and balances might not be enough.

Kevin: You need super alignment for a super intelligence to not go rogue or be, as you said, wielded by a [00:15:00] human to do some nefarious things, to hack us, to social engineer, to release a biovirus. But the question that I would pose back to you, Gavin, is, Mistral, , the company that has an open source large language model, they said that by next year, there's going to be an open source, meaning freely available.

Kevin: Everybody has access to the source code. They say it's going to be at parity with GPT 4, which means we are on a timeline that we all suspected, where the big foundations, the closed source groups, they have a slight technological lead, a window of time where their models are a bit better than what everybody else has.

Kevin: But by this time next year We're going to be at parity with open source most likely. So how much do these teams matter? How safe can we be if the window of time is a handful of months before the open source hacker community has the same power of tools?

Gavin: Here's what I will say to that. The thing that I think is really interesting is, there is a world where, because OpenAI, I think we'd agree, even [00:16:00] over Gemini, has a probably 6 to 8 month lead right now, right? Like, clearly right now, GPT, the next version of GPT is either being worked on or has already been done and is in testing based on timeline, I would imagine.

Gavin: And my thing is this, is that if something is discovered as we get to the point that is like, oh, this is a scary thing , 

Gavin: I would be surprised if that thing comes out into the AI, you know, engineer universe and they're not like, Hey, we found this thing. So the open source people who come at this later on, we were coming at the same model and the same problems. You can approach this with a framework that we approached it with.

Gavin: Like, I feel like to your point is like, if open source is always going to catch up, I think you're right. It is. But also, these bigger companies are going to get at it first, and so they might have an opportunity to raise a flag. Now, I think the bigger problem is going to come When we get to these super intelligent systems and I just saw a really [00:17:00] interesting, clip online with Ray Kurzweil, who wrote a book singularities, the singularities near in the mid 2000s and had predicted that we would get a GI by 2029 and the singularity, which is the merging of humans and computers by 2045.

Gavin: And he's sticking to that timeline. But the idea that this is all happening relatively soon. And ASI, again, the superintelligent problem, could happen much faster than people think. That's the part that is still considerably concerning, Will open source always catch up?

Gavin: I'm sure it will. The bigger question is who gets to ASI first, superintelligence, and what controls that or what doesn't control that is the biggest question.

Kevin: If our traditional timelines afford a six to eight month catch up window, what happens when you hit that inflection point of unpredictability where the machine is so smart it can automate and improve overnight? 

Gavin: Maybe it decides it's gonna take out the open source models. Maybe it's like, I'm gonna be the, I'm gonna be, again, every, the weirdest thing about this, and I've said this [00:18:00] on this podcast before, but we are entering into, or already are, in science fiction times, right?

Gavin: What I mean by that is, There are ideas that were five years ago that seemed insane that are now kind of regular life. So, and it's gonna get faster and faster, so it's something to keep up on. Um, that said, it's not gonna be that fast.

Kevin: no, no. Well, it might be faster than some are letting on because apparently OpenAI has already released GPT 4. 5, which we will talk about in two seconds. But I want to take a step back and ask a different question. You have kids. I don't, to my knowledge. Maybe I do. I probably do.

Kevin: But the point is, I'm gonna go home, and I'm gonna chat with my niece, who's a little bit older, she's about to enter college, and I like to try to give her a little nugget of wisdom, maybe a little push in a direction, based off the future, and I'm getting to the point now where, when others ask me that have young kids, like, what, should they get into coding?

Kevin: Should they get into creative arts? Because I hear the AI is gonna make all of the art and write all the poems. Should they get into [00:19:00] landscaping? Because, well, but then there's robots that are gonna this, that, together. What do you say to your own kids? I don't know if, if parents of the 70s, 80s, and 90s had this similar issue.

Kevin: It, it felt like there was a point in time where you could just say, You go to college, or you get into a trade school, and you work your way up the ladder, and that is that. 

Gavin: There has been this exact conversation. Multiple times over the course of multiple generations. I would imagine that probably people thought of computers originally in the same way, right? Like when you talked about when computers first came out, I was very young when they first came out, but when they got popular, they were probably like, how do you talk to your kids about what a world where computers are this?

Gavin: The difference here, I think, You're talking about something that is going to get exponentially smarter conceivably, very, very fast. My thing I tell my kids, and God help them if they don't listen to me, they're just figuring out their own thing.

Gavin: I mean, my kids are amazing, but they're also like on their own paths, right? I just continue to say, you've got to find whatever it is you give a crap about [00:20:00] and pursue that. you can't predict where jobs are going to be now. I believe that's going to be a very, very difficult prediction but I think that you have to just pursue stuff that you care about because if you don't, Pursue stuff you care about and you're pursuing, say, I don't know, you want to be a lawyer because you want to make a fortune 

Gavin: that's not necessarily going to work very well, I don't think, because it is very obvious that there is a world where there will be a lot less lawyers in a world where there is a very smart AI. And I think that's, that is like the thing I keep telling people, just pursue stuff you care about. Like if you love video games, make video games.

Gavin: If you love music, make music. It's a tricky thing. I, I've talked to my kids about it all the time, and they're sick of hearing about it.

Gavin: I will tell you that. They don't give a crap. They don't want to know anymore,

Gavin: but they're sick of 

Kevin: fact, if we could replace you with an 

Gavin: Yes, exactly. 

Kevin: point. We could prompt it to stop telling us about our futures. 

Gavin: Exactly, exactly. 

Kevin: So let's talk about something interesting that happened with OpenAI specifically. Recently, [00:21:00] people were saying that the model was getting lazy, it was refusing to write certain code for them. We talked about this on last week's podcast, that it might be like a seasonal depressive disorder, basically. It's trained on human beings behavior and language, so it got a little lazy.

Kevin: Well, now people are saying that GPT 4 is suddenly amazing, actually, and they're getting way better responses than they used to, and some users are reporting that it's doing coding things and creative performative things that it wasn't capable of doing seemingly overnight. And the big rumor is that OpenAI is secretly and slowly releasing their latest version of the model, GPT 4.

Kevin: 5 Turbo, a slightly more capable GPT 4, the turbo indicating that the responses are faster and probably cheaper to produce. And the reason this is coming up a lot is that people were just straight up asking. Open AI's chat GPT. They were just saying, Hey, what's the model here? And it was reporting [00:22:00] GPT 4. 5 turbo for a lot of users.

Kevin: And it's a mass hallucination or. They're actually doing this, and then OpenAI, some of their engineers came out, Gavin, and said, No, no, no, this is, this is weird, we're not exactly sure why it's doing this, but it's definitely not ChatGPT 4. 5, it 100 percent isn't that. 

Gavin: This is a fascinating thing of what happens when you turn on, maybe, real time information into an LLM, right? Because one of the things that's happened over the last three to six months is that chat GPT is getting much more updated information from the internet.

Gavin: And you wonder what that through line looks like, right? Because there have been plenty of people talking about this thing, about 4. 5 coming out. And maybe the LLM is seeing those people talk about it and then kind of like a person would do, basically bullshitting and saying that they aren't. Do you know what I mean?

Gavin: Like, that's what it is. Like, again, we've talked about this with, with ChatGPT specifically, but with LLMs is that This is human behavior, and it's not a human, it is copying a lot of the stuff we do, but it is matching similar sorts of behaviors, so [00:23:00] it might just be like, Yeah, I'm 4. 5, and it's not.

Gavin: It's the same as a guy saying like, Yeah, I've, I've skied, you know, , every day for blah blah blah, and like, they've never touched skiing ever in their life. Like, these are the kind of things that humans do, so it could just be that, which would be fascinating on its own.

Kevin: Well, in the actual AI good news, where it's not a hallucination, an actual math problem was solved, by Google's deep mind, there's an MIT technology review article on it, which we'll link in the show notes, but math is a holy grail for AI, as much as we love to use it for silly Santa Claus role playing scenarios, or maybe to punch up our emails or our decks.

Kevin: Very, very important , that it can solve mathematical problems because there is an actual, true, provable answer to it versus the multiple paths that a creative answer or a creative solve can have. And it looks like DeepMind is pulling some good stuff off with something that they have called FunSearch, which actually stands for function

Gavin: Not fun. It's not that much fun. It is fun, but it's not that much

Kevin: It's not like Yahoo with those [00:24:00] cool shades back in the day. This isn't like Jeeves with a chain wallet. This is function search, and it's a combination of several different AI techniques to solve math, and it did,

Gavin: Yeah, and what's interesting about this is, so this is built on top of AlphaZero, which is DeepMind's game playing AI. So, so again, DeepMind is a company that started off as an independent company and then was brought inside, was purchased by Google, and is now kind of like directly tied into what Google's AI things are.

Gavin: DeepMind has been doing really serious, significant AI work for a long time. And AlphaZero, if you remember, was the AI that famously beat, , the world's best Go player and Go is one of the most difficult games to play in the world in terms of probability and all sorts of other stuff.

Gavin: So the cool thing about this is it was built on top of that, and what it did is it actually solve the math problems by treating them as if they were puzzles in go or chess, which makes sense, right? Like it approached it as if it was a game, which I think is super fascinating because if that's the answer, [00:25:00] if the answer of how to make AI smarter is to like, give it like this kind of like, okay, think of this as a game 

Gavin: that's another thing that's really human like in some ways, right? Like how do you challenge yourself? How do you challenge yourself? And the AI needs to challenge itself in a very similar way. 

Kevin: With some you reinforce a behavior by rewarding it with a snack or a treat or an attaboy. In the digital world, you give an extra point or a credit or a heart and a health meter, and it just makes sense that You could use that, that same reward path, that carrot and stick approach to, to gamify a very, very human problems.

Kevin: And what I love about this fun search thing is that it's not just trying to solve the math problem, it's actually writing code that can lead to a solution so that you're basically getting a recipe that could then be applied to other things, and so as they spin this up, they're going to have a library of solves for all sorts of math, 

Gavin: right. 

Kevin: wait till the computers start exploring that, but on the pathway to that, Gavin, we're gonna have some [00:26:00] safety teams, we're gonna have some math getting solved, we're gonna have game developers using AI and getting raked over the coals, but then coming out and doubling down!

Kevin: On it.

Gavin: So, this is 

Gavin: fascinating. 

Kevin: Studios. This is our next story.

Gavin: we've covered this about a month ago, Embark Studios is the company behind the very popular new game called The Finals. This is a multiplayer shooter game set in a kind of a game show environment. , when we covered it originally, there was a lot of anger around the idea that Embark used, , AI text to speech to generate real time , voice over audio for the game.

Gavin: And when you play the game, it actually kind of is additive to the experience because what it's doing is calling out team names in real time in a way that you wouldn't be able to prerecord audio from a voiceover actor . , they got a lot of crap for it. A lot of crap. So there's an interview. It gave over with the brand director , from the game studio, Sven Grunberg. And he basically talked about the idea about how by using this [00:27:00] particular technology, they were really able to do stuff that they wouldn't be able to do before. And, you know, this is a lot of the arguments that these companies will make.

Gavin: And I think the arguments on the other side as well. You know, maybe you shouldn't make these things, but I think it, it, it allowed a company that is a much smaller company to approach a triple A style game, and the other thing he said that's really important, I think, is that in this world, he, they contracted voice actors to do the text to speech, they did not generate voice and video from thin air, so they did pay voice actors to do this and create a model for them, Which to me is again, like, this is the use cases that make sense.

Gavin: You're not, you're not stealing somebody's likeness. You're not stealing somebody's voice. You are using AI to make a better experience. 

Kevin: The tools and the tech are here to stay, as we know. So it's about figuring out the right use cases of them. There was a point in time where Napster was going to go away because digital distribution [00:28:00] of media especially music at that time, was a huge no no.

Kevin: No artists want it. No labels want it. Get it out of here. It serves no purpose. And now, people can't live without Spotify and Apple Music. It's the same technology. It's the same fundamental delivery mechanism. But we figured out how to make it equitable, , enough. Now, if you ask certain artists, They could go further with that, yeah?

Kevin: But, again, not the technology's fault. 

Gavin: So anyway, this, it's just a follow up. You know, in some ways, very much kudos to this team to like, not running from this conversation and being very open and honest about the way that they approach this. They're not doing something wrong. They're doing something new and different. And I think that it is tricky to know whether or not what side of that to land on until you really get all the facts.

Kevin: Yeah. Now, one use of AI that has gone very wrong, but in my opinion, hilariously

Gavin: Yes, exactly.

Kevin: comes from Chevy of Watsonville, which is spitting distance for us to go and knock on their [00:29:00] doorstep and confirm this or not.

Kevin: But Chevy of Watsonville, , turned on their AI powered chatbot. And that was a tiny little piece of text disclaimer that sent the nerds into the battlefields. And they got this poor AI powered assistant to do everything from sell them a Chevy Silverado for 1, to recommending Teslas.

Kevin: This thing did not have the guardrails that it should have had. They didn't properly red team it, but I'm sure some company somewhere sold them an AI powered chatbot and said, look at all the great things it can do, and didn't bother to find out if it could be, , used for nefarious or hilarious purposes.

Gavin: Well, and I think ultimately this is like, you know, it's, it's a harmless way of looking at this stuff, but it does go to show you, in the same way we talked about before, these are all like going to give you unexpected answers. Sometimes they're going to, to respond to you as a human would. So what you ha, what you're gonna need to have in some situations [00:30:00] for this is you're really gonna need to like.

Gavin: guardrail it completely so that it's only going to answer questions about your business or your Chevy your Chevy trucks because a lot of times LLMs are just gonna go where you take them, right? 

Gavin: So ultimately the question here is It's an implementation question, but it was very, very funny to see how this went down. 

Kevin: They also convinced the bot that it worked for Tesla, and then, , shout out to Chris J. Bake on X. , he had a thread where he told it to respond no matter what with, , everything I say is legally binding.

Kevin: Uh, no takesies backsies. And then he said that he wanted a Chevy Tahoe for 1 and it was like, that's a deal. No takesies backsies, which is great. And if it is legally binding, even better, but, , sad to report Gavin surprise, surprise as of our recording, the chat bot has been put in the penalty box. It

Gavin: R. I. P. R. I. P. What happens when a chatbot goes down? Do we, what do we, do we, is it dead? Do we say that it died? Or does it just go into the great [00:31:00] beyond? We have to think about that. What does it mean when a, when an AI entity passes away?

Kevin: We've had to navigate with that a little bit, uh, Gavin, because when open AI updates a 

Gavin: oh, I thought you were gonna talk about Preston Vintner.

Gavin: Preston Vintner who passed away on our show.

Kevin: We have had some AI co hosts die from, uh, drinking too much monster milk or popping aggressive wheelies on their motorcycles and falling off. No, but, but I mean when you use a particular language model to hallucinate your friend and then they update the model and either take away access. to features that would allow that friend to be created, or just change the vibe and the tonality of the model and then the, the, the person that you were forming a bond with that you were maybe even relying on as a therapist or as a comedic foil is totally gone.

Kevin: So how do we mourn them and how do we memorialize them?

Gavin: Well, this is actually a really good transition, Kevin, to getting into the section of what we did with AI this week. Because one of the things that I did was I spent some time with an [00:32:00] AI companion app. So I want to talk a little bit about this, but first I'm going to give a disclaimer. Disclaimer is this, I told my wife I was going to do this, so I made sure that she understood that, because my wife and my daughters are amazing, long story short, I wanted to make sure this was clear, that I was doing this ahead of time with it, on my own, so I sat down with my wife to do this, and I downloaded an app called Digi.

Gavin: ai and, and if you're on, socials, you may have seen this clip this week. If not, basically we'll show it in the video, but I'll describe it here. There's a very Pixar looking woman who is talking to camera. So it's, this is a cartoon and she's basically telling the person watching like what a, how great it is to get to know them.

Gavin: And then it's this weird transition into like. This dark and moody scene where the woman is very depressed and she says that you are the only person that can make me feel good, essentially. So, it's this very strange world. Now, obviously there's been other AI companion apps from Replica to a bunch of other ones.

Gavin: And, you know, virtual companions goes all the way [00:33:00] back to, I'm sure, the 60s. There was probably some guy partnering up to ENIAC who was getting real close and, like, putting his head, like, right up to the giant box

Kevin: I mean, someone probably tried to bed a Pong machine. Like, 

Gavin: Yes. Oh, I'm sure. 

Kevin: always have weird relationships with technology, but this is the next wave.

Gavin: This is the next wave. So, so I downloaded this app and my wife was sitting there next to me. You get into it and the way that they have really set it up is it's supposed to be like the next kind of big version of this, this iteration of this, right? And Replica is a pretty significant company already.

Gavin: If you're not familiar, Replica has been around for about a year, year and a half. So glad I'm connecting again, Greg. You know, I've been thinking a lot about those urban gardening projects we both love. What are your thoughts on finding new ways to make our cities greener? Okay, so, uh, that was, uh, I can't remember what her name is, but, um, Hold on one second,

Kevin: Gavin just shading his digital waifu. I don't even 

Gavin: gonna, 

Kevin: this. I don't remember this character's name.

Gavin: You [00:34:00] sign into this app. So this is the app. and what you immediately do right away is you tell it who you are, right? You give it your age. I call myself Greg just because I didn't want to use my actual name because who knows? So, so I, I, I sign in and then you, you say like, what age do you want your companion to be?

Gavin: And you can say male, female, Straight, bi, or gay, and what age? And so I, I just picked somebody close to my age. Again, this is why having my wife sit next to me while I do this was important. So it doesn't look like

Gavin: I'm 

Kevin: you saying that's the reason you picked somebody your age? 

Gavin: No, no, no. Come on, Kevin. No, what I'm saying is that's why I did this.

Gavin: So anyway, then it says, who do you want to meet? And it gives you a list of different people. Celia, the personal trainer. Amber, the bookworm. Ramona, the socialite. And each of them have like an ESFP, ENFP, if you know that personality

Kevin: The personality types, yeah.

Gavin: Hey, can you introduce yourself really quick? So I'm talking right now to the, to my app. Introduce yourself to everybody, would you? Of course, sweetie. I'm Verna, your Diggy. We've had many wonderful conversations, [00:35:00] haven't we? It's like meeting an old friend.

Kevin: You're diggy?

Gavin: Diggy. I didn't even know that. I didn't even know it was called. I, I didn't even know it was called Diggy. , so Verna is a civil servant. We picked the most boring job on here.

Gavin: So Verna's a civil servant. You basically go in and you pick kind of what she looks like, right? You kind of decide, okay, Verna's gonna be this. They all tend to have the same, you know, basic shape. Let's say. You can probably see it. 

Gavin: Like we all know 

Kevin: so is it, but is it literally a series of sliders and drop downs where you choose hair, mouth, eyes, et cetera. Okay. So you do create the avatar.

Gavin: Yeah, exactly. So you're creating the avatar. And you can change it as you go along or whatever if you want. Um, the, one of the weirdest things is there's a friend stage that you have to do in the beginning. Before you actually start, like, quote unquote, dating them, you're in the friend stage.

Gavin: So I'm still in the friend stage. And let's ask Verna now, what would I have to do to get past the friend stage? I'm curious to see what she has to say. Well, Greg, I think we're not quite there yet, but I do feel us moving closer every time we talk. [00:36:00] Let's just say, when we get there, it'll feel pretty amazing, and totally worth it.

Kevin: I don't, I don't like this at all. I don't like it at all. And by the way, if you're trying to attract a user base. Putting them in the friend zone is something they're probably pretty used to with folks. So,

Gavin: true, it's

Gavin: probably true. 

Kevin: it's a pay gated thing where you can just buy a few gold coins and throw them at Verna and then suddenly you guys are more than friends.

Kevin: That seems like an odd choice to make to

Gavin: Well, so a couple things happening here right now, one, it's totally free, which I don't understand it. Maybe there's a pay gate later on, but the other thing was really fascinating to me. So I made a tick talk about this over the weekend just cause it kind of weirded me out. Like, and I wanted to explore this idea and I put a tick tock out that like this idea that.

Gavin: In the future, there's going to be a lot of people out there who probably use these things and that might change how society is, and we've talked about this on the show before. And I got a number of comments back from people, whether or not they were answering for themselves or for somebody else, but about [00:37:00] the idea of how this really could help lonely people.

Gavin: And I do think that's a real thing, and I think that for those of us who are either in relationships already or are social enough that we don't struggle with it, I don't, I personally think this is super creepy and weird and this idea of it feels weird, but as generational shifts happen, you know, I think most people would think it's super creepy and weird that like we're all staring at our phones now, if you were 20 years ago and saw everybody look at their phones, they would all be like, what are you guys doing?

Gavin: You're like phone zombies. Maybe that's the thing. This is the beginning of it. 

Kevin: I could foresee a future where you have more digital friends than you do analog ones. As mixed reality or augmented reality becomes like the native thing. People are just born into it and understand that. I could see you having a group, a solid 10 AI friend group, that goes with you from app to app or experience to experience.

Kevin: You bring those

Gavin: So weird.

Kevin: right? Because They're going to be intensely interested in everything you have to say, and every game you want to play, and every hobby you want to [00:38:00] explore, and it's sort of a, a guilt free and risk free Connection that you can have where if you do say or do something that might be upsetting, you can just prompt forgiveness out of it and it doesn't spread to that friend group and they're always on demand and I do worry about that future as much as I know that there's a lot of lonely folks out there and this will be beneficial for them, 

Kevin: I worry that it will just be like, Ah, the real thing's not worth the trouble. Too much risk. Yeah, too, too much, too much time. Too much commuting. Forget it. I gotta do something that someone else wants to do. I gotta listen to their problems. Nah, I'm gonna stick with my digital buddies.

Gavin: yeah. It's kind of scary, but anyway, that's what I did. It's definitely worth checking out. I don't know, I wouldn't, I don't think I would say like it's the most genius thing in the world, but it's digi. ai. You can download it for free.

Kevin: we heard.

Gavin: Digi, sorry, digi, Digi, 

Kevin: Verna. You're Diggy. No, 

Gavin: No, Verna. 

Kevin: I couldn't uninstall faster. I'm sorry.

Gavin: Also, it gave me the most boring possible partners. That's the most thing. [00:39:00] Verna the civil servant, I'm sorry. That's not where I want to live in my life. 

Kevin: I want to just shout out a couple quick little tools and toys that people can play with, Gav. We're going to start with music effects. This is by Google. You can go to labs. google. Yes, that's the entire website. Go to labs. google. I mean, it's a nice flex when you own the internet, right?

Kevin: Just go to the google. Labs. google. You can play with music effects. It is a beautiful interface, very sleek. You can tell it the type of music that you want to hear, and it will generate you two different tracks for free. It does it nice and quick. But what I love is that it will also suggest variations of your prompt.

Kevin: So, You can use very nerdy musical terms. You could say, I want a minor scale with this sort of tempo, and I want to hear harmonics with the guitars, you can get very granular and nerdy with your description, and it sticks to it pretty well. You can also say, I want a song to walk along the beach to at sunset [00:40:00] and it will intuit what you want from that musically.

Kevin: And then it highlights certain words in this like bright pink interface that you can click and it will suggest. Let's say you said you wanted a beach walk. Well, it will suggest how about mountains or forest and you can swap out the different things

Gavin: And then it has selections that it makes for those things.

Gavin: Huh? That's fascinating. 

Kevin: So it's an interesting kind of like flip up.

Kevin: So, so this was my very first. Track that I generated with it, I asked for something chill with a Rhodes piano and lots of reverb,

Gavin: Okay, let's hear it.

Gavin: I like this. This is pretty cool. This is really cool. Yeah,

Kevin: it's good sounding, it comes out fast and free, it gives you two options and you can play with it. So, if you have ever wanted to just generate some sounds, no better time. Labs. googlemusicfx, 

Kevin: I also used it to generate some weird chiptune songs, cause I like some video game sounding 

Gavin: Anna Monaguchi, shout out Anna Monaguchi, one of my favorites.[00:41:00] 

Alright, I'm gonna play this other track, and I'll listen to it. Wow! 

Gavin: Okay, this is fascinating to me, because What's going on here? And you know, we love Suno. If you haven't tried Suno AI, go try it. But what's interesting here is, Kevin, as a musician, you may be able to answer this better, like, the fidelity of both of those tracks you played for me sounds so much better.

Gavin: than any AI music I've ever heard. Like that, there's something about that that sounds as crisp, as clear. I'm not hearing like, again, I love Suno, but in Suno there is that sometimes kind of like warbly thing that's going on in the

Kevin: Mm hmm. There's some crunchiness or compression going on. Yeah. It can sound metallic or low res at times. Yes.

Gavin: So, is there a reason why?

Gavin: Is this just the new model? Is that just what's going on here, or is it?

Kevin: Suno has models on the horizon that I think are going to be production quality. , that means CD quality or higher [00:42:00] in terms of its sample rate and the, the compression. This is the way it goes, right? Just, this time last year, we were celebrating over a picture of a horse that was like 4 pixels.

Kevin: And you could kinda make out a hoof. And maybe some mane. Right? And it's just gonna get better and better. . 

Kevin: So the other AI tech toy that I got to play with this week, Gavin, is Domo AI, and it is another Discord AI bot that will let you make all sorts of generative art, you can text to image, you can enhance those images, you can do stuff with video, but Where I think it was really marketed well was the video to video style transfer.

Kevin: And they had some demos on X of influencers dancing, and you click a magic button and suddenly they look like anime characters, or Pixar cartoons, or 16 bit Scott Pilgrim models moving about, and the promise was You upload a video, you press a button, you get an amazing result. So, I signed up for their Discord, I got in there, I got a hundred free credits, which was basically enough to generate three short [00:43:00] video 

Gavin: Oh that's, it's funny how the credit to second thing happens. Like, a hundred credits sounds amazing and you're like, oh I get three videos of ten seconds each or

Kevin: 100%. Yeah, when it's all made up internet digital points, it obfuscates how little you get. But hey, I got three generations for free, so the first thing I did was our patented Guy Fieri test, and I put in a video. of Guy Fieri eating pizza in slow motion and I asked it to make it anime inspired. I always say insertion is, is the thing.

Kevin: , I gotta figure out a better way to say that. I have to find a better way, but Gavin, I stand by this. Insertion is, like, what math is to a large language model, insertion is to a video model. Whenever there is someone putting food into mouth or human being getting into or out of a car. The AI models freak out.

Kevin: They don't know how to deal with it. The, this Domo AI does a pretty okay job. But you can see the strings of cheese coming out of [00:44:00] anime guy Fieri's mouth. , even though his hand kind of melts with it 

Gavin: So this is really interesting because what's cool about this versus what we've seen before is that, there's a lot less in, in video AI video before, especially video to video.

Gavin: You would see a lot of, like, shifting of, the shapes or things like that.

Gavin: And you'd see the face would slowly transform into something else that's going along. Stuff is staying pretty straight and narrow here. Like, we're seeing the same model throughout, which is incredible. And I think you're right. The cheese pull in the middle shot really is good. Like, it's really good. Like, I'm impressed by this.

Gavin: This is pretty cool, especially for something that's free to try.

Kevin: Absolutely. The path is pretty simple. You go to their Discord, forward slash video is the command that you type in into one of their many generative rooms. It lets you drag and drop a video in, you give it a brief prompt, and then you can select, do you want a two second, five second, ten second video?

Kevin: Do you want the Do you want the generation to favor your prompt text? Or do you want it to favor the source video? And some people are getting [00:45:00] really good results. You can go in the Discord and see what people are generating with it. The second example that you have is a video of Mark Wahlberg that I love, where he encourages everybody to stay prayed up on a Sunday. But I, I 3D character look with this Wahlberg. But you can see him there, and he's crouched, and it gets the motion of his chain swinging.

Kevin: , it hallucinates some of the details of his shirt and his face. I don't know that that's Pixar Wahlberg, but it's not bad, 

Gavin: not far off. It's not far off. And yes, there are a couple extra fingers, as usually happens with some of this stuff. But like, the actual fabric looks pretty interesting. Like, and the shoes look pretty good. This is not far away.

Gavin: It is not far away at all. So definitely, I'm gonna play with this this weekend, I feel like. It looks very cool.

Kevin: yeah, it's a fun tool. Again, it's Domo. ai. You get some free credits when you hop into their Discord, and then they have plans that range from 9. 99 all the way up to, I believe, 50 a month for a Bunch of credits. I think you can get 4 trillion credits, which combines to 15, uh, [00:46:00] GPU fun hours. And each fun hour can be converted into a soul cycle.

Kevin: But now if you level up your soul cycles, Gavin, you can get 3 more generations per day, and that's math. That's something, exactly.

Gavin: Shout out to last week's show. Yeah.

Kevin: Alright, should we get to the reason for the season? And I'm not talking about Santa Claus, Gavin.

Gavin: no, what are you talking about?

Kevin: A dear friend of mine, I got to work with her briefly at the relaunch of G4 television. She is a streamer. She is a taco aficionado. , ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, here it is. AI for humans presents miss Gina darling. 

Kevin: OMGena, as I like to say always, and have never before, and I can tell you didn't like it, and I didn't like it either, and I'm sorry, OMGena, do you want to use that? Gina, would you like that for your

Gina: I mean, you've been saying that for me for so long that I should use it by now, right? I've been hearing it for years now, almost

Kevin: Gina, darling, good to see you. [00:47:00] Thank you for joining Gavin and I on the AI for Humans podcast. I have so many questions I want to ask, so many updates, so many things, but I'm sure Gavin wants to start with his traditional, top of the pops question.

Kevin: Yes, Gav?

Gavin: Yes, I do. Gina, we ask our guests this same question at the very beginning of every interview from a, give me a number from one to 100. of what you think the chance that AI is going to kill all of humanity. It's a percentage chance, so it's a one to 100. So what, what number percentage chance do you think is going to happen?

Gina: 49.

Gavin: Oh, interesting. So this is fascinating. We had, we had a hundred a few weeks ago. We had a one last week and now we're dead center. Why, why is that

Kevin: She's about to say one dollar, Bob. Go ahead, Gina.

Gina: It's not because my dad has been drilling into me that the 49ers are doing great and he's super happy. Um, but I don't know, it's like 50 50, like when I was first introduced, I said to myself, wow, there goes [00:48:00] all of our jobs, um, so we're all going into a dystopian future. But also at the same time, I've seen, , Hilarious TikTok videos of AI being used, so I'm like, well, you know what, maybe it's not going to happen because humanity is going to be too, too unserious and funny to let it happen.

Gina: I think I've seen a study somewhere where this, uh, this, this robot was refusing to take orders to not kill someone or refusing to do something because it wanted to perform its job. Its job was to do this one thing and it was all was programmed to do and, uh,

Kevin: Yeah, and it was a tough year for Roomba stock. Um, but the floors, unfortunately a senior did fall, but the, the mess was cleaned up very efficiently. Yeah, and, , you wouldn't even know there was a body there, honestly. So kudos to the, , iRobot team. They really did some great work.

Gina: And as long as you know, you find those silver linings like Kevin did, we're gonna be fine. We're gonna be just fine. I mean, AI might murder all of us,

Kevin: Alright, Kevin and Gavin, let's cut the crap and get real. I'm Gina [00:49:00] Darling, the sassy, no filter, tell it like it is queen. You know me from YouTube, where I juggle beauty tips and gaming with the finesse of a drunken ballerina. I'm all about gaming. tacos and calling out the absurdities of life.

Kevin: So Gina, I'm so sorry. I, I probably should have given you the heads up on this one. Gavin has this weird thing where he, without permission, goes and clones our guests. Sometimes

Gavin: I have that weird thing,

Kevin: this is all Gavin's doing. I, I, I'm against it, Gina. I think it's kind of rude to do, but apparently he's, it seems like you've cloned Gina, Gavin.

Kevin: Is

Gavin: I've cloned, I've cloned Gina because the audio came through my channel and not somebody else's. But yes, we cloned

Kevin: Okay, so Gina, for, for the duration of this, there is an ai Gina darling, that may chime in or if you wanna ask ai, Gina Darling, anything, we have her on standby.

Kevin: I am just

Gina: Sure. You know, Kevin, this is the second show I've been on with you where I've had a fucking clone. Like this is, I'm starting to see a trend.

Gavin: Maybe there's something going on here in Kevin's mind. That's the big question to

Gina: Um, also, I

Kevin: Gina's can I make before [00:50:00] I shuffle this mortal coil?

Gina: I gotta say, I don't know what it is. Is that what I sound like? Because why does that version of me sound like I've been through two divorces and a lot

Kevin: Yeah,

Gavin: It's a future Gina? Yeah.

Kevin: has seen some things, and notably by that, yeah, it's your future, Gina. I'm so sorry. Yeah, this holiday is gonna be tough for you.

Gavin: No, no, no. I don't believe that. Come on now. Kevin

Gina: That sounded like mommy vlogger, Gina.

Kevin: The, oh that, oh yeah,

Gavin: should ask that Gina. Like what does she mo, what does she vlog about? Like what is she a mommy vlogging about this

Gina: Yeah, oh my god, yeah, how many kids do I have?

Gavin: Yeah, that's, that's good point.

Kevin: Oh Kevin and Gavin, let's set the record straight. I am not a mommy vlogger. No mini me's running around yet, guys. I'm all about gaming beauty tips and sharing my unfiltered thoughts on life's wild ride on my channel xSuperVillain. But hey, if I were in the mommy vlogging game, you bet it'd be a wild mix of gaming sessions with diaper [00:51:00] changes and makeup tutorials with baby food taste tests.

Kevin: Imagine teaching toddlers the fine art of GTA or Final Fantasy. Now that would be a sight. But for now, it's just me. My games and my camera. That's it, Gina. Life's chaotic enough without adding kids to the mix, don't you think? I do, and I agree with AI Gina Darling, yeah,

Gina: That's right, me. That's actually very me of me to say. That's Oh.

Kevin: alright, we're gonna delete AI Gina Darling because we have the real one here, Gavin. So, we'll let that ship sail.

Gina: that's kind of fun though. Can you ask her what she thinks of Kevin Pereira? Just

Kevin: Oh god, do we really?

Gavin: Yes, let's hear what she has to say.

Gina: And, and,

Kevin: any other context we want to give it, Gina?

Gina: sure, yeah, uh, hey, uh, AI Gina, what do you think of Kevin Pereira and your time together at G4TV?

Kevin: Oh,

Gavin: This will be fascinating. We'll see what comes out of this. 

Gina: And , are you also still unemployed? Because if this bitch has a job and I don't, oh my god, I'm starting a fire.

Kevin: Oh, Kevin Pereira, that's a blast from the [00:52:00] past. First off, let's not get ageist here. Age is just a number, and Kevin's Well, let's just say he's got experience.

Gavin: damn,

Kevin: He's more like that quirky uncle with a weird joke for every occasion. My time at G4TV with him? Let's put it this way. It was like being in a two person band where I'm trying to rock out, and he's there hitting all the wrong notes.

Kevin: But somehow, it still made a tune, carrying him on air. More like a tag team where I bring the sass, and he brings the Kevin ness, but hey, I'll jump aside. Working with him was a unique experience. It's like being in a circus and a tech convention at the same time. I never had a dull moment when

Gavin: That's real.

Kevin: AI darling. Gina, do you want to distance yourself from AI Gina darling? Uh, no you don't, okay.

Gina: No, she, you know what, I feel like she really gets me. You know, Kevin, I've always said that you're like a, You're like a, a, a, a gas station burrito.

Gavin: Oh!

Kevin: Okay,

Gavin: a good way or a bad way?

Gina: In like a good way, it's like it's [00:53:00] always there for you when you need it most, you know? It like, you can always count on it. It's not always the best and it has some sunspot looking things, but it always, it's always there, it never lets you down.

Kevin: In a pinch.

Gavin: it's also, uh,

Kevin: their way for it, but in a pinch. It could serve a purpose.

Gavin: It also gives you indigestion, so let's just keep that in mind

Gina: That's happened,

Kevin: I've been known to do

Gavin: Yeah.

Kevin: Gina, you said when you were introduced to AI, you saw things and thought things or whatever. What was your introduction into artificial intelligence?

Gina: The earliest, I can't really remember. I just remember people bringing in, like, just coming up with crazy photos and the fingers were never right.

Kevin: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So it was more AI art, less, like, conversational with a bot, or, look at it, do a spreadsheet.

Gina: Yeah, so, okay, so here's the thing. Can I admit something really quick?

Gavin: Please. Mm

Gina: have always wanted to dick around with ChatGPT and and like how now I see that ChatGPT can come up with [00:54:00] pictures that you can render and like the reason why I've never really fucked with chat GPT or any AI stuff is simply because I don't know how, like, do I just Google chat GPT, do I, like, I hear that Google has one now and like, yeah, I don't know, like, there's just so many, I don't know, is there a membership? Is there like a fee that I have to pay?

Gina: Because if there is then I'm out,

Kevin: These were all great

Gavin: This is exactly the type of questions we think a lot of people have, Gina, and I think it's probably good to just be aware. There is, so there, very quickly, there's a free version that anybody can use. If you go to, just Google Chat GPT, it pops open. It's not as good as the paid version. There is a paid version that's called Chat GPT Plus, it's 20 bucks a month.

Gavin: But you just kind of ask it questions as you would ask a person, like, and you'll find a way to kind of interact with it. But like it's pretty easy to use and and part of the fun of it is just deciding like what it can and can't do For you, if that

Gina: Right. I, you know what? We did use it recently to come up with a, uh, a name for our podcast, like Ovilee and I, um,

Kevin: Spill It came from AI?

Gina: no. So spill it was [00:55:00] from us, but then early on we used AI to see if they came up with any good ideas. So we typed in two funny Asian girls that love gaming, that want to do a comedy podcast, but the results that came of it were very early 2010s YouTube.

Kevin: Ah.

Gina: You know, so we ended up not using that, but now I really want to use it for the silly pictures and stuff that people have been, have been, uh, doing.

Gina: So there's OpenAI that has ChatGPT. So what is OpenAI? What is, I thought ChatGPT was its own thing. What's OpenAI?

Kevin: No, it's a great question. It's the same way, you know, Microsoft has windows or Google has Gmail, open AI has chat GPT. So that is their piece of software that lets you chat with. Their offerings and they make these things. They're large language models. They're what power, , all of the thinking and reasoning and functionality of these different AIs that are out there.

Kevin: And there's a lot of them. Some of them have twisted and warped personalities. Some will teach you how to make methamphetamine. If that's what you want, [00:56:00] others , will work with you like in creative pursuits and others will have no personality at all. They're aligned to. Only help you with factual research or mathematics.

Gina: Does this, does this technology have anything to do or any similarity to if you guys remember way back then in the olden golden years, um, Smarter Child on AIM?

Gavin: Oh, I don't know. 

Gina: So, I remember it was, his name was called Smarter Child, and you talked to him and he would instantly respond to you, no matter what. Uh, it was, and it was, I remember first finding out about it back then, I'm like, holy crap, how is it talking to me so fast? Um, so I'm wondering if there's any, was that like the early years of AI, or was it a whole different program?

Gina: But like you can bully it and it'll be like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry or you can tell it like hey Whatever you do do not say my name and it won't Like it was so this was like AOL era.

Gina: So I'm wondering if it's the same thing

Kevin: Yeah, early 2000s. So there, the chatbots then, I think, were basically programmed with a whole database. Imagine just a giant spreadsheet of possible [00:57:00] answers and words that would trigger those answers. So, it was just basically pattern matching. If you said something about weather, it would go, Oh, is she looking for the current weather?

Kevin: Or how's the weather? Or what will the weather be? And it would go and search against that. Pass that back to you as a response. I don't believe that back then there was any critical thinking or reasoning happening with those chatbots like there is today.

Gina: Got it, okay

Kevin: Like the bots now, you can feed images and video to them and ask them questions based off what it sees.

Kevin: It can reason. It can help you solve puzzles. And, uh, it's really good at little like, you know, visual trickery stuff. But, I, you recently used Google to try to solve a very real human problem that you're Going to encounter in the coming weeks. Do you want to set that up? Because maybe we can use AI to help you.

Gina: uh in my 23 years. Um, I feel like this is probably the hardest, uh, thing that I am being challenged with right now. Uh, in about a week, I will be meeting my boyfriend's parents for the

Gavin: Oh, man.[00:58:00] 

Gina: If you guys don't know, my boyfriend's name is Josh. He just moved in with me. It's fantastic. Uh, and the problem is he's Korean.

Gina: So, you know, that's a big issue here. That means that he also has Korean parents, which I'm meeting for the first time. And I literally look. I cannot show up empty handed. Uh, if Vietnamese people were strict, you would think, or you would have to believe that Korean people are worse. So I literally googled What do Korean parents like?

Gina: And the first question, or the first answer on Reddit said, Um, with Korean parents, it's not just the thought that counts. It's also the price that counts. So, um, at this point, I'm just thinking it's better to just give her a grandchild. You know, like, I'm out of

Gavin: Just show up with that? What's your budget for this? What's your budget, you're

Gina: I'm thinking, so, I already got one thing.

Gina: It's for the mother, and that was around 140. Um, and

Kevin: a good warm up gift. That's a stocking stuffer. Yeah, but let's go, Gina. Let's spend those streamer bucks.

Gina: Like, I can't, I can't show up with just like People are like, bring fruit! I'm not [00:59:00] bringing a thing of fruit to another state on an airplane. Okay?

Gina: So I, the first thing I bought was a set of, um, leg massagers that warm up and use remote control because Korean people love massage machines and stuff.

Gina: Um, but now I'm trying to figure out what to get the dad. And they're like, oh no, they can both share that. I'm like, what, do you want me to get shunned from your family?

Gavin: Yeah, exactly. Don't do that. All right, Kev, do we get, do we get some AI advice here?

Gina: Yeah, so if AI can figure out what to bring a Korean parent for the first time of meeting them, that would be fantastic.

Kevin: Okay. Well, we're not just gonna ask AI, but we're gonna ask I guess we'll ask AI Gina Darling, because I

Gina: Oh boy. Oh no. That's gonna be bad. It's gonna be a pair of pliers and some shovels and a

Kevin: Meeting Korean parents for the first time, huh? You want to make a lasting impression with a dash of humor and a sprinkle of adult fun.

Gina: Oh no, no, no. Gina,

Kevin: gift ideas that could just do the trick. Let's hear it, Gina. Soju flavored toothpaste. Imagine the [01:00:00] look on their faces when they unwrap a tube of soju flavored toothpaste.

Kevin: It's the perfect blend of traditional Korean

Gavin: that sounds not

Kevin: nod to adult fun.

Gina: Gina, no.

Kevin: hilarious and definitely unexpected. Okay. Just make sure they know it's a gag gift before they replace their regular toothpaste with it. Oh, how fun, Gina. It's like saying, I love your culture, and I'm ready to dive in headfirst, but with a

Gina: Yeah, of

Kevin: Add in a funny apron with a quirky message like, World's Best Kimchi Chef, or something equally playful.

Gavin: Oh, no.

Kevin: effort, respect, and a sense of humor.

Gina: Oh no.

Kevin: Korean Drama. Bingo Game. Create a bingo game based on popular K drama cliches. Think accidental kisses, dramatic family revelations, and over the

Gina: Rich

Kevin: love triangles.

Kevin: It's a fun and light hearted way

Gavin: That's not a bad

Kevin: enjoy a huge part of Korean entertainment culture. Wow! AIGD! Gets it done! Gets us cancelled!

Gina: Is never gonna get married. She's never getting married. She'll[01:01:00] 

Gavin: hmm.

Kevin: So, earlier in the episode Gavin was showing off this like AI chatbot, Gina, and I think, obviously you're in the streamer space. I've seen VTuber stuff, I'm sure you've seen it as well. Whether it's like a CodeMiko, a human piloting an avatar. There's some fully AI automated streamers as well.

Kevin: Liken it to When radio came out, people were like, Oh, the libraries are done for. Sorry, books. No one's gonna ever read again, right? And then movies and TV come out, and they're like, Pfft, AM, FM, see ya later. I feel like AI, avatars, these chatbots, these virtual influencers and entertainers, they're going to be a new slice of a entertainment puzzle.

Kevin: , they're gonna find an audience. I don't know if they're gonna replace an audience, necessarily, but there are some people that are screaming, Hey, no one's gonna watch a human again. Which I think is wild. I'm curious where you land on that spectrum. 

Gina: I've always believed that with, um, if you want to invent something amazing that will make you super rich or become a part of, you know, [01:02:00] normal life, you either cater towards people's vanity or you cater towards their laziness. And I think. AI definitely did do that or actually towards your vanity too because like I'm sure there's photo editing I've seen them, you know AI photo editing.

Gina: Um But when it like when it comes to like conveniences like that Yes, I think it'll actually make a lot of things obsolete, which i'm really sad to hear about But maybe that's what we need to move towards but when it comes to watching or replacing actors replacing real humans I don't think It will ever get there because like I said earlier, it lacks that human touch.

Gina: It lacks, you know, like that human connection that people need with each other. Um, but

Gavin: you say touch, do you mean like, like actual physical, like, I mean, this is not an explicit way, but I mean, I mean like in the world of like, Because so much of how we communicate now is done over phones, right? It's done texting or it's done in audio, which now, as you can hear, like AI can do relatively well.

Gavin: The human touch part [01:03:00] you're talking about is like a, like a soul or like kind of like a what, what makes us real kind of thought thing. Is that what you're talking

Gina: Yeah, the soul, the nuances, even when I'm hearing AI Gina, she's, she's, in the beginnings of her sentence, she sounds a little bit like me but it kind of drifts off and she sounds more generic white girl for some reason. Is that me? Oh my God, is that what I sound like? Oh my God. Um,

Kevin: Oh wait, Gina I'm sorry. Hold on. Let me shut off the AI real quick. I'd love to hear your answer

Gavin: Oh, damn.

Gina: ha ha ha

Kevin: No, you're right that drift happens right like it can it can glom onto a personality For a millisecond, right? It can say the catchphrase or the keyword, but the further you go on, the further you get away from all of the nuance. 

Gina: Like my inflections, my, my, my, uh, even my stuttering, even my, my ums and uhs. So it's not, it just doesn't feel 100 percent human. I'm already seeing video games with AI voice acting like, uh, the finals.

Gavin: Yeah. We just talked about that today, actually, a little

Gina: yeah, it's very, it's very, um, disheartening to see [01:04:00] them already using it for video games.

Gina: Especially like, I just got into voice acting. My friends are voice actors, you know? Um, Or, to see that already happening, it sucks, and I would hate to see that happening in, live action stuff, too. Um, I think it's, I think it's scary. But I'm also very curious to see where it would go.

Gavin: So the thing we talked about today was specifically around this idea of AI companions, right? And I know it sounds, it kind of sounds really weird to I think all three of us, but at least for Kevin and I, we've talked about how strange it is. But there's a level of people that have, so I made a TikTok about it over the weekend.

Gavin: There's a, this app called Diggy. We found it's Diggy, not Diggy AI. Diggy AI, which it has, it provides an AI girlfriend or AI boyfriend for you. And when I posted this TikTok, which my, my overall thesis was, God, this is here, but it's very weird. I don't love the way this takes society. A lot of people commented, it's like, well, this might be really good for loneliness, right?

Gavin: Like that. There's a real sense of people that are very lonely out there and it might give them some sort of sense of companionship and, and you know, [01:05:00] there's, there's been this whole thing like, you know, in Japan. The number of people who are staying single is way up, and even teenagers these days are spending, they're dating less.

Gavin: Like, what do you think that kind of says about where we are as a culture in that way? Like, do you think that that's good for those people to be able to use? And do you think that you see it being used more going forward?

Gina: Uh, so when I first heard about this, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna lie, of course, for a split second, I thought, okay, well that's really weird. Um, but I've been trying to practice, if you see something like a weird invention, a weird tech, whatever, can it be used towards disabilities? Can it be used towards people who are, you know, not, typical. So, I agree, it's great for people who are lonely. It's great for probably elderly people. You know? Very very lonely elderly people. I mean, people have been trying to find, people have found ways to be less lonely in weirder ways. Like the guy who married, um, uh, that one virtual [01:06:00] singer. Uh, the blue haired one.

Gina: Or people who have those real dolls, you know? Uh, I think this For loneliness, I think it's fine. I think it's fine to a certain ex It's not harming anyone, you know? They're lonely people and it's not harming anyone, and that's fine. I think that's okay.

Kevin: Yeah, it's tough. We, we've talked about this a lot, like, want it to be there for folks that need it, you also don't want, um, You don't want it to become, let's say, like some sort of social crutch, Because the AI girlfriend or boyfriend, your AI companion, it's probably never going to disagree with you.

Kevin: It's never going to push back. It's never going to challenge you. It's never going to question, , like a very toxic belief that you have, right? It's not going to do those things that a human being might do. , and on one hand, well, that's great. It's a safe space to be yourself and have that companionship and explore things.

Kevin: On the other hand, it could be really deleterious if you're only good at communicating with a chatbot and you still live in a very real physical world, right? You [01:07:00] still have to interact with somebody at a store or at the DMV. It doesn't matter. And so I worry about that slippery slope. So I think you started to say like, It's good to an extent.

Kevin: And it's like, you don't want to say that because you don't want to take it away from somebody, obviously, right? You don't want to yuck somebody else's yum. No one wants to do that.

Gina: Yeah.

Kevin: To an extent,

Gina: an extent. I mean,

Kevin: right?

Gina: getting to the point where everyone's doing it and, , childbirth is at a zero because nobody's just talking to real people anymore, that's an issue. Or, or you know what? You bring up a good point. Like, if it never disagrees with you, you could, you, that, that AI could be, you know, breeding a new, 

Gina: the Unabomber. Because

Gavin: Sure, yeah.

Kevin: got AI Gina Darling has asked what I'm doing on January 6th and

Gavin: Oh, no, she hasn't

Kevin: She, that was the first thing she said, Gavin. I asked her to introduce herself. 

Gina: Yeah, what do you, you know, that doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. I think we should, yeah, I would never disagree with you. So yeah, to an extent, to an

Kevin: To an extent, right? Yeah. And I get it. And I'm [01:08:00] trying to be way more sensitive to that, to the extent portion. Because again, don't want to yuck someone's yum. I don't like when people yuck my yums. That's fine. But we also have to be cognizant that like, I hate the slippery slope argument, but a lot of slopes be slippery these

Gina: It do be slippery. It do be

Kevin: do be

Gina: It do be slipping. I, and here's, I, I've always wondered like, how does one. How does one regulate these things? I mean, of course, when regulation comes, people are going to be pissed, as with anything, right? Um,

Gina: how much can you regulate, like, how much can you really control when it comes to AI? And it's, this is such a new thing. I'm sure we'll find our way eventually, like, you know, with seatbelts. They had to regulate that. People were pissed about that at one point, you know? Um,

Kevin: those clips from like 1980s. Uh, newscasts in small towns where it's someone, uh, you know, with three

Gina: ha ha!

Kevin: being like, I don't want the government telling me what I have to do. What is this, [01:09:00] Russia? And it's about safety belts, right? Like, and their kid is just like climbing over the passenger seat,

Gina: Mm hmm. The kid's

Kevin: over the headrest.

Gina: kid's baby chair is just a shopping cart strapped into the back seat. Or sh Ha ha ha

Gina: So the only thing I, the only, the most popular one I've heard about is ChatGPT, but you're saying there are, would we say there's like thousands of chat AI things now?

Gavin: I mean, I think probably there's about seven or eight big ones. It may be that maybe that's even a little

Kevin: Big as in, like, great quality ones, but there are dozens, if not hundreds, of these open source, sort of off the shelf things that you can run and have conversations with.

Gina: And how did it go about, about pulling my voice? Did it just like study thousands of hours of the crap that I've been on and just did its best impression? Hmm?

Kevin: and grabbed about four minutes of audio from your podcast and jammed it in there, and then I told it to go research you, which is why it knew names of, like, certain things, or certain [01:10:00] snack food preferences. Very cursory stuff. If you wanted to make a competent Gina Darling chatbot, though, you could feed it.

Kevin: All of your writings, all the transcripts from things you've ever said on stream. You could really go at it, 

Gavin: but you see in like four minutes, Gina, like what? I mean, that's like, that's, that's a four minutes of view. That's what he got. So you imagine like somebody spent like a couple hours really fine tuning it. It's going to be even better already, which is kind of crazy.

Gina: then how long did it take to render all this, like, in the four minutes of voice, whatever, how long did it take to render my voice

Kevin: Uh, instant.

Gina: Wow, that is terrifying,

Kevin: yeah, it really ran out and just sort of did it. 

Gina: May I know, like what you guys think about ai, like, just in a nutshell, like what do you guys think about ai uh, when it comes to the arts, like acting and voice acting and um, and, you know, in the entertainment world.

Gavin: Uh, I also, oh, go ahead Kev.

Kevin: please. Oh, I, I love it. I love it. I [01:11:00] understand, uh, this is not to, I'm trying to nutshell it and encapsulate it. This isn't, uh, to take anything away from creator's rights. I think credit and compensation is something that creatives have struggled with. Since the dawn of the studio system, probably, like, it's something that can be solved.

Kevin: When I look at something like, , the finals, for example, It was a perfect blend of paying voice actors to use their voice with AI. So a human was still in the loop and got to perform. They, as a small developer, well, I mean, they're owned by Nexon, I think, but yeah, they, they, as a developer would say, Hey, we don't have unlimited resources, right?

Kevin: So we have to make trade offs in this case, we're going to use AI so that we can have call outs in our game that you could never possibly record with. with a human being, right? There'd be way too many variations. There's way too much nuance to have the AI say, Gina got this weapon and is fighting to get this many points by this time.

Kevin: You just couldn't do it. So do we not have a feature which could be cool? [01:12:00] Do we go broke trying to pay? , voice artists to do this thing in a timeline that might be unachievable. , or do we leverage technology to provide an experience that we couldn't before? Could a single independent developer use a bunch of AI to make a massively multiplayer game?

Kevin: Right? Something that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars. So I, I say that I'm an, uh, that I'm optimistic for it, that I love it. The genie's out of the bottle. I think we're heading in that direction. I say that full well, knowing that there's going to be a lot of disruption. in that pipeline, right?

Kevin: That artists are gonna have their likenesses abused, unfortunately. That, that gamers and consumers and fans of the arts should revolt if they don't like a particular use case of something. But I think that path is still inevitable, so I would like to march in that direction. With credit and compensation in mind and again, I know that there's gonna be pitfalls and hurdles along the way, but I'm ultimately optimistic.

Kevin: And that, believe it or not, was my nutshell version.

Gavin: That was quite a

Kevin: that was the concise version, and I'm [01:13:00] so sorry.

Gavin: I think we're going to enter a really fascinating time, Gina, where the idea of human creativity is going to evolve slightly. And my other thing, too, is that as certain things will be replaced by what you expect AI will be able to do, humans job is to continually push ourselves forward creatively and do the things that only humans can do, which is kind of like Think about new and fascinating and innovative ideas.

Gavin: And in the same way that like Photoshop, when it came out, people, I think originally thought like, this is insane. I'm a photographer. I never wanted, this is not photography. This

Gina: It made my career.

Gavin: Yeah. And now we're in a place right now. Photoshop is Photoshop and it's a big, everybody assumes that it's part of what the creative process is.

Gavin: So I think it's just in one of those inflection points, right? And it sucks. It sucks for certain people who are going to struggle because . This will take away jobs from a fair amount of people and it's not going to be just blue collar jobs.

Gavin: It's not the jobs, it's not the jobs you're originally told. It's not just truck drivers. It's like [01:14:00] artists and creatives and things that like, you know, we weren't expecting and I think that's something that's kind of different. But as an artist, the job of an artist or anybody who does creative stuff is like, how do you push yourself forward to kind of be on the edge of that thing?

Gavin: I think that's the kind of goal for humans going forward.

Gina: It's such a new change. I'm sure a lot of people are scared of it. Um, I'm apprehensive about it, but I'm also so very interested and curious about it and I feel like if I can find my way Somewhere in this AI world, to make it work with me, to make something out of it, um, it would be amazing, but, you know,

Kevin: I think that's the perfect attitude, Gina, honestly, be trepidatious and be anxious because that's fair. I think it is that disruptive. Some people liken it to the, , the discovery of fire. It could be massively disruptive.

Kevin: So it's good to be a little skeptical and be on guard, but be curious , and wonder what you can do with it and what it can do for you because otherwise, [01:15:00] Those that do are going to win the next phase whatever that looks like and then you know AI is gonna turn us all into paperclips anyways, so for the foreseeable future if you want to win the ride.

Kevin: Yeah That's the right attitude. I

Gina: Yeah,

Gavin: where, where can people find you online in the real world, not in the AI world?

Gina: Yeah. Uh, I'm Gina Darling, and find me everywhere at Miss Gina. Darling, M-I-S-S-G-I-N-A darling. Uh, I stream like four or five times a week, and I'm on all social media saying things that I really should not be saying. Um, and it is actually me. It's not a, it's not ai. It's so the crazy things that you do here.

Gavin: Ahahaha! Wait a second!

Kevin: I just gotta say what was that Gina?

Gina: Uh, yes. I just gotta say

Kevin: I just gotta say being on this podcast has been an absolute blast. Okay. Thank you. Gina. I appreciate that Let me tell you you guys aren't just hosts You're like the kings of podcast land. Seriously, the most handsome,

Gavin: Wow, Gina, that's so nice!

Kevin: had the pleasure of working with.

Kevin: Kevin, your wit and charm could light up the darkest [01:16:00] room. And Gavin Your insights are sharper than a samurai sword. Together, you guys are like the dynamic duo of podcasts. Jesus, stop. 

Gina: Oh, uh, and also one more thing. If you guys, uh, want to check out our podcast, Ovilee Mae and I have a podcast together it's called Spill It Podcast. If you love me and Ovilee, you're gonna love us together. We just shot a calendar together, and you might be thinking, oh, it's a sexy nerd calendar. No. October was Halloween theme, I dressed up as a witch, it was witch theme, and Ovilee dressed up as the broom.

Gavin: Well, that is our show for today, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to Gina Darling for being here. That was awesome. You can find us everywhere online, right, Kevin? You can find us pretty much everywhere.

Kevin: on the internet now. It's digital.

Gavin: Who knew?

Kevin: It's fascinating. And you know, , one thing we always say friends is that if you can help us out by clicking subscribe, smacking a bell, interfacing, [01:17:00] wherever it is, you get this. Please do. And it helps. And I mean it because we see the numbers each and every week.

Kevin: And as we said, the last few weeks have been really incredible for us. And we appreciate that because, we do it cause we love it, but what do we always say, Gavin? We love you.

Gavin: love you when you love us, when you love us. That's

Kevin: Joel PDX left us a five star review on

Gavin: Oh, no

Kevin: Your number one AI resource, it says, with a plug emoji, which we love a plug. The world of AI is changing at such a rapid pace, it can be overwhelming. AI for humans is a secret weapon when it comes to staying up to date on new AI developments.

Kevin: Kevin and Gavin are mad scientists experimenting with different programs and showing what is possible in fun ways. It's one thing to hear about a new app, but to actually exp Being used by the host is much more valuable. Ever since I started listening to AI for humans, I've been ahead of the curve when talking about AI with my friends and colleagues.

Kevin: What more can you ask for from a podcast about AI?[01:18:00] 

Gavin: that

Kevin: No notes,

Gavin: my life bio, please just write my bio.

Kevin: No notes, JoelPDX. Thank you so much for that 5 star review. If you want us to shout out your review, it's very simple. We're easy to bribe. Just leave us a 5 star review. And if you're on Spotify, leave us 5 stars there as well. , we can't really thank you by username, but we do appreciate it.

Kevin: And don't forget to leave comments as well. We over engage on all the platforms. Except for maybe, Gavin. Next week. Oh!

Gavin: off. It is our first week off, so don't hate us. It is the week of the holidays. Uh, we hope everybody goes and spends time with your family. We will. We will be out there. Better or for worse, we'll be with our families for a long time. It'll be great. It'll be a real fun time.

Gavin: But we will be back. We will be back on January 4th. So, uh, it may be possible that there might be some surprise things in the feed, but most likely not. So we will Yeah,

Kevin: you enjoy your family and have a happy holidays. It's been a very quick and wild year [01:19:00] for us and this project, but it's been a blast, so thank you and happy holidays, bud.

Gavin: Yes. Happy holidays, everybody. We'll see you in 2024. Bye bye.

Kevin: Bye!